CO2 pellet guns?

[messmaker]

Ya, amazing that idiot Guy Ritchie actually put that together!

Very funny movie.

[Black wallnut]

Anything is possible but when the SHTF a non-leathal defensive weapon can get you or a loved one killed. Self defense is a deadly serious business. I disagree on a 12 guage being too much for someone of 110 # size. There are many women shooters that shoot guns of this power, and even some that shoot guns of higher power than it. Practise can be done with lighter target loads for not great expense. There are drawbacks to shotguns but they are mostly mitigated buy their effectiveness at defensive ranges.

Center fire handguns (as opposed to rim fire) are also worth considering. For reliable terminal balistics 9mm should be cosidered as a bare minimum. Revolvers are for the causal shooter easier to learn to shoot and are more reliable. Plenty can go wrong with an auto loader and their use requires more training.

As others have said if and when you make a decision to arm yourself for defensive purposes be prepared for what may occur if you need to follow through. Find training from a competent source. Get advise from folks that are crediable. You may even consider joining the NRA so you can receive their monthly magazine aimed at defensive gun owners.

[cgallery]

Forgive my complete ignorance, but I assume I am correct in assuming that sawing off a shotgun is a complete no-no. That, even having one in your house is illegal. Right?

The problem is that to defend the upstairs of my house, a handgun would be preferable (due to the bend on the stairs). If I used a shutgun, I'd have to expose a large part of my body in order to fire. The shorter the better.

Still trying to determine the best direction (shotgun vs. handgun).

BTW, I've visited gun shops in addition to talking to avid "experts" and have found that just like any other industry (big-screen TV, cars, tools, etc.) there is a lot of misinformation. I figured better to do as much research online as possible before returning to the gun shops.

On whether I'd be able to pull the trigger, well, if I was able to kill two men with my bare hands, I don't think that will be a problem (do I hear a collective "oooo, what don't we know about cgallery?").

Of course, I did say _if_ I was able. Just kidding. All I've ever killed w/ my bare hands was a Big Mac.

[cabinetman]

Of course, I did say _if_ I was able. Just kidding. All I've ever killed w/ my bare hands was a Big Mac.

That's a notch higher than a Little Mac. You'd be surprised what you could do if your life depended on it, or if you had to.

[maxparot]

It may vary dependant on local laws but I believe sawed off shotguns are legal if they are over 18" in barrel length. This is not to say that you should cut 1 down yourself but I'm sure you could find a tactical model that was the shortest legal length. Also there are a few pistol loads that are of interest for close combat they can have from small shot to a few nice sized balls and cover a spread pattern. They will not work in every gun so you'd need to choose a gun with that use in mind. Most large caliber revolvers can use them and even a few autos will feed them but autos may not be reliable with that type of load.

[Tom Slick]

Ya, amazing that idiot Guy Ritchie actually put that together!

my attempt at comedy was missed. one of the great scenes in the movie one group of characters is attempting to keep out some intruders with a pellet gun. for those of us that haven't seen the movie it takes place in England where firearms are illegal.

If I were going to keep out intruders I would use a real firearm.

[LCHIEN]

my attempt at comedy was missed. one of the great scenes in the movie one group of characters is attempting to keep out some intruders with a pellet gun. for those of us that haven't seen the movie it takes place in England where firearms are illegal.

If I were going to keep out intruders I would use a real firearm.

Lock stock and two smoking barrels was a hilarious, dark comedy. I enjoyed it thoroughly.

[Bruce Cohen]

OK, Personal Defense/Protection 101.

What you want to do is to STOP the intruder instantlly, it doesn't matter if he dies, you want to prevent him from moving at once.

The best way to commit suicide is to pull out a pellet or BB gun, no matter how menacing looking it might be. It's still basically a toy.

If you're not handgun proficient, then you should have a shotgun, and 20 gauge is fine, use a #4 bird shot load for a good spread and to prevent penetration thru the wall and into the room next to you, because your aim will suck in a situation such as this.

Have a really powerful small flashlight (SureFire makes great, but pricey ones) next to the bed or gun.

Be prepared for the muzzle blast (the flame coming out the barrel) to screw up your and the intruder's night vision, because if you totally miss, the follow up shot by an almost night blind you will probably miss too.

The sound of a pump shotgun being pumped is threatening, but use it for effect, always keep your weapon loaded (cocked and locked, as the auto pistol crowd says).

Lastly, be sure that before you start to keep a firearm for protection that you will be able to pull the trigger without a moment's hesitation. Too many homeowners' are killed by their own weapons because they freeze up at the critical moment.

If this you, then get a good strong door on your bedroom and keep your cell phone next to you to call the police. I suggest cellular, as some really bad boys cut your phone lines prior to entering your house,

[Hellrazor]

Bruce is right on as usual.

If you plan to pull a gun to defend yourself, you better have the brass balls to follow through with it.

Handguns are great, but you need to be able to keep your head and aim. Shotguns are a lot more forgiving in the aiming department.

Choosing proper ammunition is important too. You don't want to shoot through 4 walls in the house with a .44mag with wadcutters or open fire with an AR15 and FMJ rounds.

I have a S&W 5944 in 9mm for my concealed carry/etc. My primary clip is loaded with Black Talons.

[Bruce Cohen]

I have a S&W 5944 in 9mm for my concealed carry/etc. My primary clip is loaded with Black Talons.

I keep the first mag of my .45 loaded with Glaser Safety Slugs, at home. Outside, well things are a bit different

BTW, where'd you get the Talons. Haven't seen them in NY in years.

[JimD]

I have several rifles and shotguns including one pellet rifle. I have shot pistols at targets, 357 and 44 magnum, but I do not own one. I am sure there are others with more experience but I have shot a bunch of targets and a few animals. I have never had the need to shoot a person and I hope I never need to.

I have thought about what I would do in the middle of the night. I have a cell phone in our bedroom and that is also where my gun closet is. I also have a baseball bat. I would try hard not to use a gun. If I had to use a gun, it would be my double barrel 20 gauge. I might rack the 12, it is a pump, for effect but it is long and indoors that is not necessarily a good thing. The 20 is my favorite bird gun and I know I can handle it well - that is an important criteria. At close range, the shot of a shotgun will not open up significantly, you are essentially shooting an ounce to a couple ounces of lead at a relatively low velocity. It will hit hard and will not penetrate through as many walls as would a solid bullet. I still would worry about what is behind the target.

A pellet will kill a person if the hit is in exactly the right place. It has happened. There was a TV show recently where they killed a hundred pound wild pig with a pellet gun with a shot to the head. A CO2 pellet gun is relatively low velocity and a 22 calaber pellet will penetrate less than a 17. A bb would penetrate more. It might scare somebody if they did not know what it was. It would not immediately incompasitate a determined person unless the hit was to the eye or temple and even then it is iffy. A 22 rimfire will go through a person regardless of where they are hit if it is a solid bullet. An explosive round like a stinger might not make it through but would make a bigger wound. A 22 will kill a person with a decent hit (head or torso) but would not dependably incompasitate. Advantages of a 22 is cheap practice and virtually no recoil.

If the target is hyped up on drugs, you may have to hit the central nervous system (head or spine) to drop them. Even a deer rifle to the torso, a sure kill, may not drop a determined person. A "bullet proof" vest is no real protection against a deer rifle. I suspect a shotgun at close range would still crush the chest if you had on a vest. All pistols are small relative to deer rifles but the bigger pistols are still plenty to kill a person, it is the question of how fast they stop that is the real question. To kill a well placed 22 is enough. To stop is the question.

They used to sell a 410 shotgun as a personal protection device. I think it would be enough. It would be about the same as a 45 colt except for penetration. Enough to kill but not enough to go through a bunch of walls. If you are not experienced with guns, I don't know if you want to go for something that will dependably drop an intruder. The problem is they will kick significantly and that may scare you into missing. A missed shot won't help. If you won't practice, my suggestion is to stick to a baseball bat (and phone).

Jim

[Jeffrey Schronce]

BTW, where'd you get the Talons. Haven't seen them in NY in years.

There is no Fedral ban on Black Talons however some states have banned them, NY could likely be one of them.

The original Black Talons are no longer made by Winchester due to pressure from political groups. However, they basically re-dressed the thing and it is now sold under a few different names. The Ranger SXT is marketed as a police grade bullet as is the Ranger Talon, however it is legal for the private citizen to own them. Contrary to public out cry they DO NOT pentrate bullet proof vests. That is just silly. The Supreme SXT is the version marketed to non-police consumers. It does not have talons, thus lacking the additional expansion capacity of the other products in this line.

[tkarlmann]

Not sure but get a cool one -- they are FUN

Is it possible that a CO2 pellet gun (pistol) could deter a home intruder?

I became addicted to these things about 2 years ago, and these things are fun toys. I have pellet holes in my wall to prove it. I shoot mice and crickets with them, as well as targets, maybe an occasional annoying rabbit (I have a vegetable garden -- now it has a nice fence, so I do not kill rabbits anymore).

I have laser sights -- the actual beam emitting type (before local laws prohibited them) and the red-dot-screen type, and a fancy scope for the rifle that cost more than the gun! (Well, I told you, I was addicted!)

The best pellet-handgun I have is a Crossman that looks like an S&W .357 mag revolver. The reason is the best is that it has true single action -- not the horrible long-throw DA action that keeps your targets safe from harm.

Anyway, as for home defense? Phooey. You are playing a game where you are trying to fool someone into being afraid of a pellet gun -- the comedy movie with the two garbage men comes to mind -- where they try to fool the bad guys with a pellet gun.

Look this way: would you trust the health & safety of your family to someone being fooled into thinking that your toy pellet gun is a threat to them?

[tkarlmann]

Too many "ifs" in a .22 game.

.22 v .45 = .22 loser

.22 v .357 = .22 loser

The reason .22 loses is because you can unload 6 rounds into the guy with the .45 all the while he slides one off that ends you. He lives you die.

Max is right. You have to have the mind set that when you are faced with immediate danger you will shot that person. Like Max I am usually armed myself. When I am in South Philly or sections of DC or MD I usually have my hand inside my bag at all times until I am in a secure location. It sucks but I know that I will live if confronted.

Although I agree with you, I think it also depends on who's wielding the .22. I'd like to see some ner-do-well keep coming at me after 6-8 well placed shots in the head/neck from my .22 Ruger target pistol with LR hollow point ammo, stingers. I think I can place shots far better with a .22 than I could with a 9mm -- (my experience level)

[JimD]

My experience is all animals but I think it's reasonable to believe humans react similarly. Well placed shots are much more important than what you hit with. Bigger is better but only if you can place your shots well. Misses might scare somebody - not a bad thing - but otherwise do not accomplish anything. A common instruction by an outfitter - someone hired to guide a hunt - is that you bring what you are confident you can hit with. They would rather you bring something on the low side in power than a bigger gun you are afraid of or have not practiced with.

Black Talons were just a fancy marketing name for an expanding bullet. All game is shot by expanding bullets, most places by law. Military ammunition is not-expanding, I believe by treaties. An expanding bullet does more tissue damage but penetrates less. If you want to see something really scary looking look at an expanding shotgun slug. My slug barrel is sighted for the Remington solid copper sabot. It has an initial hole that your little finger will just about go into. When it expands, it is about twice the diameter of a 12 gauge shotgun barrel - around 1.5 inch diameter expanded. The purpose of the bullet expansion is nothing nasty or evilly intentioned - it is to dispatch the animal quickly and humanly. Wounding an animal and letting it escape to a slow death is not humane.

The best thing to do with humans and guns is not to use humans as targets. After that, the humaneness becomes a bit mirky. Are we trying to wound and let the suspect survive or protect ourselves? I believe police departments use a mixture of rounds depending on the theory of the chief. Some use solid bullets on the survival theory for the suspect, others use expanding bullets trying to let the police survive. Bad situation regardless. Much better if we just behave.

Jim