UFO's - Believe It Or Not

[Stormbringer]

I worry more about illegal aliens from this planet than I do from outerspace.

DonHo

ROTFLMAO .

[jseklund]

I found the article about aliens being a threat pretty interesting. Actually, Steven Hawking on one of my videos says something to the effect of, "If there is intelligent life out there, then given the history of advanced civilizations that have come into contact with less-advanced civilizations on earth, we'd better keep our heads low."

Something else most people don't realize is- we actually MAY be the only ones out there. It seems ridiculous, but there's a book/movie called the priviledged planet that goes into some detail about all the things that have to go "right" for advanced/intelligent life to be created- LIQUID water is just the beginning. The type of star being orbited, proximity to that star, magnetic fields, location within the galaxy, and a TON more has to be all just right. When you work out the probability of life it works out to be something like one over one trillion trillion. Compare that to the number of stars out there- and you realize that we, ourselves, possibly have been a fluke.

Couple that with the fact that we have NO evidence of UFOs, and the technology would have to be so advanced for a UFO to travel here, it seems unlikely. What is interesting though, is that we have just begun getting off the ground ourselves, and most people who have no real knowledge of most aircraft swear things HAD to be extra-terrestrial that they saw. What about people who saw the stealth bomber years ago and SWORE it was a UFO? Things like that are well documented, but UFO conspiracies are all heresay and speculation. There is some interesting "stuff" to watch- and I find it highly entertaining. However, the scientist in me believes it is highly unlikely for extra-terrestrial life to be "checking us out". That same scientist is also ready to be wrong....

[LCHIEN]

....which remind's me of a Far Side toon. Two guys out at a lake at night. One shinning a flash light on a frog. He says, "See, just shine the light in their eyes and they just stare at it which makes them real easy to catch."
The other guy is standing next to him looking up into the sky at another large beam of light pointing down.



I certainly think there is life elsewhere. The chances of there being a society of far more advanced beings are pretty good. The chances we will ever know about them aren't so good.
The sky would likely fall on our heads before visiting Alien beings are confirmed by evidence.

Lee, you make me laugh but there is an element of truth to your post.

All the physical laws and truths we know make it unlikely that beings on other worlds would actually physically travel to our world.

One article I read once said that advanced societies are not likely to be detectable for long. As a civilization we have only been detectabel for maybe 100 or 200 years at the very most. Most of our signals that will penetrate space have only been sent out for the last 50-75 years (TV and radio signals.) And the trend is to make them less visible (coming up with direct satellite transmission directed downm not into space and cable TV hardwired into homes. Broadcast signals will become scarcer. As a civilization we mayonly have a detectbale window of a hundred years which is but a blink in the lifetime of the universe.

[gwyneth]

Hmmm, let's see, if we identify them as Unidentified, then they are not technically unidentified, because they have been identified as "unidentified". .

Sorry, maybe I grew up to close to Wright Patterson AFB and hangar 17.

If we divorce aliens, visitors from space, and other emotive aspects from the term, it's sort of a different discussion.

One summer night in 1984, I was driving my convertible near I-80 near the Indiana/Ohio boarder. The top was down and my passenger and I saw something in flight that didn't look like anything we had ever seen. Very large, sort of blimp/cigar shaped, well-lit.

Maybe something experimental from Wright-Patterson? I have no idea, but I have always been thankful that there was someone with me who also saw it (clearly not just my own imagination).

[Stytooner]

To think life can exist elsewhere, you really have to look at the broad range of life on this planet and what it takes to sustain the different types of life. Better said, what each form of life can endure as far as environment. There are some severe environments here. Places where man just cannot go. At least not without the aid of our technology.
There are species deep in the ocean that cannot survive at our surface. Some near those volcanic tubes that subsist in an extremely hot, toxic high pressure situation under water. Perfect situations for some of the possible planets that didn't get as lucky as Earth. Earths evolution is but one scenario for life. We really can't rule out life evolving on some other planet that would be too harsh for us to exist on, but that the native species flourishes in.
We haven't even discovered anywhere near all the life on this planet. Given all the possibilities out in the Universe, the odds are simply in favor of there being life elsewhere.

Loring is right. In our Earths history, we are but just the current dominant species. They have been wiped out before. It will likely happen again.
There could have been advanced races in the past from other places or they may come about elsewhere in the future. We may well never know.
One thing is for certain. We will never be able to search all the worlds to find out. We are going to have to stubble on them using our best technologies. We must also be willing to look in places that are different from Earth. I personally just keep an open mind about it. Odds are that something does exist other than on our orb. However as the saying goes on forums, "No pics, didn't happen."

[jseklund]

Gwyneth- You bring up a good point. I DO believe in UFOs. Just not Extra-Terrestrial UFOs. There are plenty of things flying in the sky that I can't identify.

Stytooner- I agree that the chances of "life" on another planet may be good. However, the chances of advanced or intelligent life, similar to us or more so- is very unlikely. For instance- those creatures at the bottom of the ocean are not likely to look up and wonder if there is another planet out there. It's just not in their perception. Also, there are basic rules to life- chemical rules, that would make some other forms of life being intelligent/complex impossible. For instance, silicon can only form a certain number (4 I believe) of chemical bonds per molecule. The possible combinations and chains of molecules for silicon are thus much more limited than that of a carbon-based life form (carbon I believe can for 12 bonds). The properties of water are such that it makes a great substrate for life- it can completely dissolve a wide range of chemicals, is polorized, etc. To try to find these properties in an ammonia based environment would be impossible.

Now, I don't think that shrimp are flying to our planet from 200 light years away. I can only imagine that something that was capable of this would be at least as intelligent as us- and maybe even more complex. There appear to be certain requirements- LIQUID H2O, plate techtonics, magnetic fields, certain proximities, etc- that are essential to the formation of life that is complex. Here's the interesting part in my mind though:

What if there is only one way to form life? What if that way just happens to also be the only way planets can evolve. I.E.- say life has something to do with 8-9 planets of certain sizes orbiting a certain type of star. Now say there is some principle at work that necessitates planets grouping around certain stars in groups of 8-9 and adjusting to certain sizes. This is probably a bad example- but it would be pretty amazing.

Either way- if we're not the only intelligent life out there, that's pretty amazing. If we are, that's pretty amazing too. If we are the only intelligent life, we'd better smarten up though.

[Stytooner]

All the common chemicals found on or in earth are also found throughout the universe. There is no other explanation for them being here other than they are a smörgåsbord of things scattered about the universe. These are common elements in differing amounts and for earth, certainly with an exact recipe of forces, location and time acting on those chemicals.
The thing about this subject is that everyone that argues either side is right until proven otherwise. One can also reach dark depths and unused areas of your own brain just contemplating some of the vastness and possibilities that may exist. Makes my head hurt just thinking about it.

[Sawatzky]

I believe that the Bible is all perfect truth. Genesis 1:1 says, "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth." All that is out there was created by God. The moon was created to rule the night, and the sun was created to rule the day. We as humans are the only creation created in the image of God. To me that is just amazing. God created all that we see and all that we don't see. He created it for our enjoyment and his. He came to this earth in human form and ultimatley died for our sins so we could one day live eteranlly with Him. Humans are unique. We are the only creation with decision making abilities and a conscience. We know right and wrong. Did God created other beings on other planets? I think not. There is no evidence anywhere in the Bible to support this. The only other "extratraestrial" life would be angels. I just praise God that he made me and that all the rest of the wonders of the world and of space just remind me how great our God really is!

[prlundberg]

Don't these advanced creatures have anything better to do than wreck our crops, probe our butts, and mutilate our livestock?

I admit it is possible, perhaps probable that we are not alone. I just have not seen a believable story yet.

[scorrpio]

I think someone is out there. However, I think that anyone capable of interstellar travel is not going to be an organic life form. A machine civilization, which may have been organic once, but have since transcended biological life. Organic life requires too many resources to support survival conditions.

Far as being hostile or not... I really think that in order for them to expend any kind of effort in obliterating/enslaving us, there has to be a tangible benefit. With Europeans exploring the world and conquering less developed nations of Americas, Africa, etc, there has been the farmable land, hunting grounds, slave labor, raw materials, etc - that was needed and could be taken.

But what if an alien civilization has no need of any resources we possess? Or can obtain those resources elsewhere with far less effort? They might pause for a moment, check us out the way a man might pause to observe a squirrel climbing up a tree - before continuing on their way and forgetting about us.

[footprintsinconc]

Sawatzky,

i have to question one thing though: that is no where in the bible does it say that human beings are the ONLY creation that he created. He sure does say that he created everything, he says he created us in his image, but he doesnt say that we are the only ones. the same goes for the quran aswell. no where in any book that he has revealed, there is no mention of where he says that human beings are his ONLY creation.

regards,

[Sawatzky]

We are not the only creation as God created all things. We are however the only created being that was created in God's image. God actually created us out of the dust of the earth. He spent time forming us with His own hand. Humans are the only creation that God "formed". We were also the last thing He created. Everything else was spoken in to exsistence, but we were formed. That means humans are the ultimate expression of love and creativity in God's design. Genesis 1:14-19 says:

"And God said, "Let there be lights in the expanse of the sky to separate the day from the night, and let them serve as signs to mark seasons and days and years, and let them be lights in the expanse of the sky to give light on the earth." And it was so. God made two great lights--the greater light to govern the day and the lesser light to govern the night. He also made the stars. God set them in the expanse of the sky to give light on the earth, to govern the day and the night, and to separate light from darkness. And God saw that it was good. And there was evening, and there was morning--the fourth day."

No other creature has a conscience or knows the difference between good and evil. No other created things can make choices. The Bible says that man was to rule over and take care of creation. When Christ came to this earth He came in the form of a man. He was 100% human and 100% God at the same time. This is very hard for our little brains to comprehend. But who did Jesus come for? Humans. His love was so overwhellming for us that He sacrificed His life for our sins so that in His eyes we would be purified from our own sin. He did not die to save animals or any other creation but the man He had created. To say that thier is life out there somewhere with decision making capabilities and a conscience of right and wrong goes completley against what the Bible teaches and what Jesus came to do. Did He go to other planets and die for thier sins too? No. We are God's ultimate creation.

Genesis 1:26-27 says:

"Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, in our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, and over all the creatures that move along the ground." So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him;
male and female he created them. God blessed them and said to them, "Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air and over every living creature that moves on the ground."

[gwyneth]

One of the funniest passages Bob Woodward ever wrote in any of his White House books concerns Reagan and Colin Powell.

Occasionally Reagan would start worrying in cabinet meetings about how the U.S. would/could defend itself against an extra-terrestrial invasion. Apparently Powell permitted himself to subtly roll his eyes each time the discussion started, at which his aides knew that he would inevitably say afterwards, "He brought up the little green men again".

[footprintsinconc]

Look, most of the things that you quoted pertain to us and maybe this universe that we live in. there are and could be other universes out there. if you read your quotes, you will see there is lots of room for other creations. he does not catagroically say the conclusions that we make on his behalf. these are the conclusions that we have been taught over the years by our religous leaders with no direct quote from any of the revealed books.

if you remeber, there was time when the earth was suppose to be flat, no buts, ifs or anything. it was our limited thoughts that constrained our understanding of what God had revealed. it took time, but we got over that.

so if we stand aside (out side the box) and look at the same facts that were put in front of us by the relgious scholars, we may see differently. we need to keep our minds open to other ideas and thoughts. doing so, doesnt negate ones faith. what God tells us are explicit facts that pertains to us and our salvation and no more or no less. the rest of the universe is left up to us to discover and imagine.

regards,

[Stytooner]

As much as I enjoy the discussion, it is hitting the edge of a taboo subject on this forum. I will say that those that argue either side of that discussion are also right. It is the same type of subject in essence in that there is no proof of anything but what you carry in your heart. You may full well know for certain one day about the existence of everything. For this forum's discussion, let's leave out who created any possible aliens, but rather IF they were created at all.