another tragic story in the news

[LinuxRandal]

I couldn't put a percentage of blame on a case like this. It seems this is not the first time some of the kids have done things like this, so the parents have to get part of the blame.

I'm guessing it's illegal for a train to block a crossing for the length of time mentioned, but I don't think the RR gets any blame for what happened.

Even the most caring parents can have things like this happen with their kids, and IMHO, the kids have to get the lion's share of the blame.

Ed

When I was a guard at a combine plant, we had a train track that ran next to the plant and a railroad station was very VERY close by. The passenger trains stopped there, the cargo ones, never did. They stopped in front of us.
We had a number to call, as we were informed that it was illegal for a train to be parked, blocking an intersection for more then 10 minutes, except in case of collision.

[Jaden]

Ihad to go with the 33% for kids, parents, and RR, but I truly feel the ratio (not posted) should be more 60% kids, due to the pre-meditaion of the action (and I believe there should be charges brought. The parents bear somewhere around 20%, as yes they should have raised there children better, and watched them more closely (especially considering they did this all the time) but in the end, some kids are just bad no matter how you raise them. Lastly, the RR knew there was a problem with this crossing and was planning to fix the issue in 6 months (bet they fix it before then, now)

I know the differant ratio's may be a little picky, but I believe the RR had more than a 10% part in this accident, and none of the others seemed to fit.

Steve

[billwmeyer]

I went 50/50, but I would have to put a little blame on the rail road. I have seen some tracks around here with flares at the intersection when a train was stalled.

The kids were of course at fault. They are the ones that initiated the accident. The parents however should not let kids that age out that late at night. My kids had a curfew, and if they didn't give a good reason why they were late, the got punished. Even recently, an NFL coach told his players that nothing good happens after midnight. We would let our kids stay up later at home, or a verified outing at a friends house, but until they hit 18, they had a curfew. We were rather lenient parents, but we kept tabs on the kids.

Now these kids probably had cell phones, and I would have been calling them to tell them to get home. It is sure a tragedy, and it should have been prevented.
Bill

[BrazosJake]

Not to hijack this thread, but can we take it to a different level by asking: Why is it necessary to fix blame when a tradgedy occurs?

[Uncle Cracker]

Not to hijack this thread, but can we take it to a different level by asking: Why is it necessary to fix blame when a tradgedy occurs?

Deciding who's at fault will certainly happen in the courts, both civil and criminal, and also has a bearing on which party or parties should endeavor to make changes. While it's not necessary for laymen to decide fault, it does make food for thought.

[LCHIEN]

Not to hijack this thread, but can we take it to a different level by asking: Why is it necessary to fix blame when a tradgedy occurs?

I started it because I was curious about how many people felt it was some fault of the railroad, and partly because I thought it would eventually wind up in court and the only way the court can apportion the damages is to assign a percentage of the blame.

I also have this thing about the parents being at fault for their children's behavior. I feel that children who act in a socially irresponsible way are reflecting their upbringing where they were not taught to behave in a way that was considerate to others and in a way that benefits society as a whole. What we have here are spoiled brat kids who understood this was not what was expected of them (e.g. know right from wrong) but obviously did not deter them because they had an underdeveloped social conscience.

Is this behaviour learned or instinctual? I think learned, and therefore the parents are a great deal to blame.

[mn95616]

I would have to divide the blade between the children and parents. However, without known the parent's parenting skills, I can said whether they deserver 50% of the blame or 1% of the blame. Also - for those of you who say that the apple doesn't far far from the tree, that's not always true.

I have three step-daughters (18, 16 and 12) who I have all raised since they were young. The oldest child is overall a good kid. The youngest child is a wonderful child who participate in church activities, peer counseling, befriends the "outcast" even though she very popular at school, gives her lunch away to other kids who can't afford lunch (even though we tell her to SHARE her lunch and not give it away).

The middle child is a nightmare. She's 16 and already wants to have a child. She sneaks outs out, and does poorly in school. She doesn't listen to us.

So tell me why parenting skills turned out two wonderful girls and one rebellious girl? We raised them all the same.

BTW - I do not blame the railroad all ALL for THIS accident.

[25]

In TX you have to be 16 to get a learners permit and 17 to get a license. Underage driving

Slight side question, did this change? 10 years ago (wow never thought I would say that, I know it's a drop in the bucket but still feels like a long time to me) when I got my license it was 15 llearners permit and 16 for the DL.

Back to the orignal question, I don't like finding someone to blame. The better question is what can you take from the story to teach your own kids so they don't become part of a headline.

[ejs1097]

Wow....I can definetly see how 8 people could come to 8 conclusions with fault on this one.

Although I gave the RR 0% fault in my vote, parking a train on a crossing at night for several hours with no lights, refelectors, etc is completly foolish. Is there signage to this effect several hundred yard back from the crossing?

Parents should have a handle on their kids <18 and know where they are 100% of the time. All of these kids should have been in their beds at 3:30am. If the driver has a history of joy riding cars, then it seems obvisous the parents neglected to properly handle the situation to prevent this horible accident.

All the kids should know better. A 12yo should know how wrong this is and to not go along with it, furthermore a 12yo should still be at the age where they acutally tell a parent about the plot.

This is a horible occurance (not an accident) and was 100% preventable. Sadly many parents choose to ignore parenting and properly teaching kids disipline and responsibility.

[LarryG]

After considerable deliberation, I voted 50/50 split between parents/kids. I might've voted for more fault with the parents were it not for the "planned this for days" part. Clearly, these kids knew what they were doing. Actually, I think the real division of blame ought to be more like 80&#37; parents and 80% kids.

I understand and respect the opinions of those who think part of the blame goes to the railroad, but ultimately I have to dismiss it. The train being parked on the track was obviously a factor, but it wasn't the deciding factor. Had that train not been there, these kids would surely have found some other means to kill themselves before the night was over.

[scorrpio]

I voted 80 kids, 20 parents, but I think it is more than just parents.

From my reading of the stories, it looks like there are stop signs posted at the crossing, and where I live, those signs are reflective. To ram into a stalled train, one has to deliberately run a rather visible stop sign. And to leave 25' long skidmarks, one has to travel at speed way above what is usually posted near RR crossings. If those kids came safe home this night, having had this gung-ho experience, the'd be hungry for more, only postponing the inevitable.

And what are parents to do here? Media feeds kids gungsta rap, movies like Fast and Furious and Gone in 60 seconds, government takes away a parent's ability to discipline a child the old fashioned way that produced many a fine generation, and all around youth culture is a message that 'ignoring thy parents is cool'. Why did these girls fell for the boys who did whatever they want, drove cars they weren't supposed to, and not some good kids who listen to their parents?

[LCHIEN]

Had the train not been there thay might have killed themselves at the very same spot and time, what with attempting to go airborne and all (should some blame be placed on the Dukes of hazard?).

The family of one of the girls killed ironically noted that "trains regularly block the crossing", which could be taken as there's regularly a hazerd there or countered by they should have known better.

More reporting from the Houston Chronicle:

The train had blocked the crossing for 33 minutes when the accident occurred, he added.
The Federal Railroad Administration, which oversees the national railways, does not regulate how long trains can block crossings, according to the administration's Web site.
Texas law, however, prohibits trains from blocking crossings for more than 10 minutes, though the statute may not apply because railroads in some instances are controlled by the federal government, said Warren Diepraam, a Harris County assistant district attorney.
No citations have been issued, officials said.
Prosecutors will wait for the investigation to conclude before deciding whether either of the crash survivors should face criminal charges, according to Diepraam, who heads the vehicular homicide team at the Harris County District Attorney's Office.
The tanker, the 80th car in a 126-car train, did not have reflective material to help make it visible at night, Arbona said.
The Federal Railroad Administration has a rule requiring reflectors on rail cars to prevent night collisions with vehicles, but railway companies have several years to equip rolling stock, said Warren Flatau, administration spokesman.

[scorrpio]

They, of course WILL try to place as much blame as possible on the railroad. Rail got money. Bobby's parents don't.

[LarryG]

Two further thoughts:

The length of time the train was stopped is irrelevant. What if the train had been stopped there for a Texas-legal nine minutes? For five minutes? One minute? Eighteen-point-three seconds? How would that have changed anything?

If the parents do try to sue the railroad, wouldn't that provide some insights into the kind of parenting these kids may have received? Seems to me it just might.

[Adele]

I started it because I was curious about how many people felt it was some fault of the railroad, and partly because I thought it would eventually wind up in court and the only way the court can apportion the damages is to assign a percentage of the blame.

I also have this thing about the parents being at fault for their children's behavior. I feel that children who act in a socially irresponsible way are reflecting their upbringing where they were not taught to behave in a way that was considerate to others and in a way that benefits society as a whole. What we have here are spoiled brat kids who understood this was not what was expected of them (e.g. know right from wrong) but obviously did not deter them because they had an underdeveloped social conscience.

Is this behaviour learned or instinctual? I think learned, and therefore the parents are a great deal to blame.

Before adopting two children I would have agreed with you that the parents are a huge part to blame. However, since adopting two boys and seeing that no matter how you disipline a child and try to teach them right from wrong they have there own will. The mother knew they had done it and hide the keys. There are other measures she could have taken and who knows what all she had done. I believe these kids were old enough to know what they were doing was wrong and all entered into the excursion together. Yes, they didn't want him to speed up and try to "catch air" but they should have thought before they snuck out. No one will make be believe they didn't know it was wrong. Did they think they were going to be killed, absolutly not but we never know what the results of our sin is going to be.

That's my 2cents worth.