another tragic story in the news

[scorrpio]

OP:
Fault for what? Their death? If so it's 100% the railroad's fault. There's two separate issues of responsibility here and one does not excuse the other.
Tell the same story with honor students on their way home an hour early from bible study 5 miles under the speed limit and look for the common denominator in both.

I will remind you that speed limit in the area in question is 25mph, and the intersection has a stop sign. Care to describe how anyone following the rules could have suffered a fatal collision with a stopped train?

These brats violated every single law in place to protect their lives and lives of others (no licence, underage, accompanied by minors, curfew, grand theft auto, speeding, not obeying posted traffic signs). Trying to shift blame elsewhere is ridiculous.

[Jeffrey Schronce]

Hmmmm. Blame v. liability. Interesting topic.

Thoms analysis of children behavior is very accurate IMHO. I know as a kid I was raised by completely normal, happily married, hard working Christian parents. I was an absolute horror. I did everything these kids did but was drunk as a skunk and high as a kite when I did them! Certainly not anything I learned from my parents and they really did their best to try to stop me. Some kids just don't care. I didn't. I don't know why. Also, as Thom alludes to there can be genetic dispositions to certain behavior as well (opinion).

As far as blame goes I lay 100% of the blame on the children based upon the facts presented.

As far as liability goes the parents will be held liable for damages to children that are not their own (parents can't be held liable to themselves for their own children). Amazingly the parents homeowners liability may reply to this loss. All auto policies will exclude coverage, both the parents policy and the auto owners policy. Auto policies are very specific in the exclusion of non-permissive use and vehicles used in the commission of certain crimes, including racing, etc. Homeowners policies specifically exclude auto losses, however there are often provisions for the intentional acts of minors.

I don't think the rail road will be held liable by the courts given the jurisdiction. If this had occurred in the north eastern US or CA I could see a jury finding coverage based upon social good theory.

[cwsmith]

In my mind this was a tragedy that may have been avoided had any one party taken a responsible step. I know that our individual answers are largely dependant on our own experiences.

But that said, I don't think you can discount anyone from having a part in this accident. The largest responsibility IMO falls to the parents. Whether it be by thier ignorance that evening, in not accounting for their children and the security of their vehicles, or their past failures to discipline their children about the responsibilities of life.

The kids themselves have a large percent of the fault too. While kids in their pre-teen and/or teen years appear to have some serious lack of understanding of life's risks, they are hopefully not totally suicidal. Even when parents totally fail in their upbringing, there is a certain survival instinct that should kick in. In this case, all circuits seem to have shut down... not only for the driver, but also for the joyriders who paid the ultimate price for thier stupidity.

And lastly, I don't see how we can discount the railroad crew for thier callousness. Was it simple arrogance on their part or just thoughtless behavior that led them to leave a train across a public road without proper lighting or cautionary indicators?

Instead of the kids, it could have been a responsible adult rushing to an emergency. While the RR didn't steal the car, invite the kids, or in anyway intice thier reckless driving, they did set up a blind obstacle that resulted in the accident. Should anyone else have hurridly driven down the road that night, the RR would have been wholely responsible.

Like I said, our answers most likely reflect events in our lives, but this is how I see it. Bottom line is that too many kids died, the survivors and all of the families involved will be effected for the rest of thier lives. What remains is whether any or all of them will take responsibility for the part that they played in this terrible event.

CWS

[ragswl4]

A very similiar thing happened in the rural area where I grew up in the 1960's. Four teenagers hit a stopped train at such speed that the entire top of the car (1956 Mercury) was torn off, car went under the train then hit a utility pole and sheared it off before coming to a stop. Three died instantly, one a week later. No skid marks, flares were on both sides of the train, back seat was full of beer bottles (broken, all). The only way the car was recognized was by the word Mercury on the rear bumper.

The kids never saw the train and it was estimated that they were traveling in excess of 100 mph. While I never saw it, there were reports that the car actually knocked the railroad car off the track. The railroad was held faultless.

Back to the original subject. In the end I do feel sorry for the families. Fault won't bring the kids back and I'd hate to see someone get rich because they found fault with the railroad. That won't bring the kids back either and were I the parents, it wouldn't make me feel any better either. I can't imagine a greater pain than losing a child.

[dkerfoot]

My initial gut reaction was to blame the parents first then the kids. Then I got to thinking about leaving a train sitting still across a road with no lights or anything.

This goes against how I usually see the world, but in this case I put most of the blame on the railroad.

1. Yes the kids were jerks and need to spend some time in Juvie, but they are minors and should be held to a lower standard than adults - both the parents and the RR people.
2. Yes adults are responsible for their kids, but it sounds like at least the one parent we know about was trying by hiding the car keys, etc. They should be investigated to ensure they were providing proper supervision, but unless they were truly negligent, I think they get a pass.
3. Ultimately, the railroad has been given huge swaths of land and the privilege of being able to cross over roads, etc... To those that are given much, much is expected. They owe the public diligence when it comes to safety.

What would your reaction have been if a farmer had parked his combine in the middle of the road and left it there for the night with no lights, etc?

So just this time, this Bush lovin', God fearin', small govt, gun totin', mind yer own bidness, conservative, Republican is saying the parents should sue the railroad and win.