Had to call 911 today

[25]

Glad to hear that you and your family are ok.

I like dogs, have had one or more most of my life. In college I had a dog that no matter what I did he would find away out of my back yard. He was the nicest most docile dog I have ever met, he was a lab/rot mix, and he even let a dachshund beat him up. I say let since I have no doubt of what he could have done if he wanted to that god. If he wasn't I would have gotten rid of him in a heart beat since nothing I did could keep him in the yard. Even tried an electric fence and he just tunneled under it. I eventually found him a new home anyways, but it would have been much sooner than later. Had one of my dogs ever attacked someone else unprovoked they would be put down without question.

I would not hesitiate to shoot any dog that is threatening my family. If a dog ever made an unprovoked attack on one of my children the dog will be delt with legaly or not.

( Also while I was hitting their dog with the shovel the mother was hollowing don't hit them with that shovel )

What is wrong with some people? The guy who owned the dachshund was yelling at my dog and hitting him for the dachshund attacking my dog? My dog in the situation never growled, barked, or even tried to bite the other dog.

[Jeffrey Schronce]

Lure them in your yard with some raw meat and shoot them.

I would get an attorney immediately and file demands for punitive and compensatory damages in civil court. Emotional distress for what was done to your family pet, the fact that you are afraid to go outside, you can't enjoy your grandchildren in the backyard without fear of them becoming bait, etc. I would make an initial demand of $50,000.


I would also proceed with criminal filings as well. I believe criminal negligence can be demonstrated by the number of times this has happened in the past to you alone, let alone the other neighbors. These dogs are known hazards.(Why would someone want to keep dogs like this?)

Generally a criminal suit supports the civil suit unless of course you lose the criminal suit. I would look for the neighbors homeowners company to settle the claim @ around $15,000 and of course your attorney will get half of that for his fee.

Also, during the proceedings if you happen to get a hold of the neighbors insurance homeowners info, go ahead and call the underwriting department and let them know how about the aggressive dogs. They would love to get rid of this risk and will issue notice of non-renewal unless the insured gets rid of the dog.

[Hellrazor]

Dogs like that deserve one thing and I would not hesitate to give it to them if they came after me. They deserve a well placed shot with a 12g. Shooting a dog is about the last thing you would see me do, but in those circumstances I would not hesitate.

I've caught a bunch of dogs that got away from their owner over the years and went well out of my way to return them. BUT... dogs like that do not deserve anything. The owners are idiots to let it keep happening.

And Jeff is right, you could hammer them in court. The dogs were aggressive towards you and attacked your dog in your yard. Want to really push your point? Get a camera that dates the photos and take pictures every time they are off the leash.

[jabe]

Sorry about your dog, glad you & your family weren't hurt. I hope your dog recovers and be back to normal soon. Take Jeff's advice file a law suit & notify the neighbor's home owner's insurance they'll cancel the policy unless they get rid of the dogs. Some neighbors are just numb & dumb till some kind of legal action is taken. Don't let your emotions rule your judgement, stay cool & take the legal route.

[DUD]

Ken I am glad Your GrandDaughter was not hurt, nor any other Family members. I am sorry Your dog is hurt.

In our little community of about 55,000 people, We had a rash of pits and other animals biting and in general out of control. Our city officials were forced to look at this by the people concerned, in the neighborhoods where the problems were.

The city passed an ordinance that the pitbulls were to be kept inside a pen or fence that couldn't be gotten out of, concrete floor, etc. Sign on fence saying dangerous animal inside, your name and phone numbers. 1st time $1,000.00 fine, community service, 2nd time animal is put down, $5,000.00 fine, you pay all costs of having the dog put down.

We haven't had a dog problem in over a year. Bill

[JBCrooks]

I have seen something said a couple of times in this thread that I have to totally disagree with. It is not "redneck" to take up a weapon and defend your family. It is a man's right and privilege to protect his own. That being said, I think that while your dog is in recovery would be an excelent time to line your driveway with tasty hamburger-meat/rat-poison snacks. The dogs deserve to be shot, but the owners deserve to watch the dogs die slow.

[mater]

The man of the house came home and walked over to my driveway to talk about what happened. He apologized and said they were let out by accident. I responded with accident or not the damage was done and they should have been more alert to the fact of what these dogs can do. I told him I was tired of my family and me being terrorized by these dogs and them jumping on my dog. He proceeded with his dogs aren't dangerous and that set me off. I wished I had kept better control but I would have lost it anyway when his son came up and said he didn't appreciate me hitting his dog with a shovel. My daughter was pulling me back. We finally broke up the talk if you call it that.

He called later and was very apologetic saying he didn't realize all that had happened until he talked to us and said they would put one of the dogs to sleep if we agreed to let them keep the other. The one they want to keep did the most damage to my dog. I don't know where he got information that I could make that decision. He said earlier he had talked to Animal Control. I told him I was to upset about this hole ordeal to talk anymore right now. I needed to calm down before I explode. I would talk to him tomorrow. My wife seems to think it best to let the law handle it since we have to go to court. Personally I don't see the law doing much since they didn't bite any humans.

[oakchas]

Mater.

Most insurance companies will NOT offer homeowners coverage to homes with these and other breeds in them... without incident... In this case, you need to call their insurance company... they will cover this... The owners will Have to put the dogs down or pay an extemely heavy rider to keep them...

I am soooo sorry this happened to you and your family... Everyone has said you have been more than accomodating, and that is correct. I hate to say this but you have allowed this to occur. It's time.

Time to stand up and STOP this.
Time the dogs MUST BOTH be put down.
Time to collect the damages from their insurance company.
Time to STAND up for the right to live without fear for your family, your pets, and the neighborhood.

Were these my dogs, as an honorable person, I would have to face the music I would hate to have it happen... but it would be my responsibility.

Ken... please. I don't know you, but I've got to say it... Stop caving in to neighborly relations... quit being the nice guy. Put an end to this for good and all. there is only one way to do that... and it is the owner's responsibility.

My fear is that the dogs will "disappear" having been abandoned on some country road somewhere, and may harm others because the owners couldn't do the reasonable thing.

My most sincere best wishes and prayers for your family and your dog, please forgive my frank talk, I'm just counting you and your children and grandchild truly blessed that you or they were not the victims in the emergency room.

[Jeffrey Schronce]

Most insurance companies will NOT offer homeowners coverage to homes with these and other breeds in them... without incident... In this case, you need to call their insurance company... they will cover this... The owners will Have to put the dogs down or pay an extemely heavy rider to keep them...

That is part of my original suggestion to the original post. In SC the homeowners insurance company can legally non-renew the policy at the next renewal period. The problem is that certain companies will allow the insured to sign a waiver of liability for the dog, which would serve to exclude dog bite coverage from the homeowners policy. I personally find that to be a position that is contrary to the public good; however there are companies that will write such policies. Most companies are going to advise them to get rid of the dogs. Riders do not apply to property policies, only life and health policies. Endorsements can be applied to exclude coverage as mentioned above, however amazingly you cannot surcharge a policy for covering liability arising from dog bite as it is automatically covered. Enough with boring insurance non-sense though as that is probably just a passive aggressive way of dealing with the matter.

Especially after today’s demonstration of the neighbor’s unreasonable nature, it is clear that in order for your family to be safe this will become ugly. Tomorrow, I would speak with the DA or Assistant DA and ask what your course of action could be in criminal court. If it is immediately apparent that this venue will give you no relief then I would proceed to a private practice attorney and pursue a case of negligence citing those items outlined in my original post (compensatory and punitive damages based upon damages to dog, mental well being of family, possibly false imprisonment for fear of going outside). This may sound like the advice of sue-happy person who has too much Philadelphia rubbing off on him, but seriously this needs to be safely and reasonably resolved. The threat of suit, both criminal and civil, may get the neighbor to take care of this issue. At a minimum it will prompt inquiry from the homeowners company when the lawyer puts them on notice, thus another angle that may force the issue.

You know in your heart that those can’t stay there, right? And I will go ahead and break the news that the friendship with this neighbor is done. He cares more about his dogs than your family. You must not care about his feelings. I say this because you seem like a nice guy who may give this jerk and his mouthy family another chance. If you do and something happens to your wife or grandkids you will not be able to live with yourself. Not trying to scare you. I am just trying to help everyone be safe.

[siloamga]

Mater,

Others have given great advice and I just wanted to say that I will keep you and your family in my prayers as you deal with this situation.

My only suggestion is that a pitch fork is a lot better at slowing down a animal than a shovel. Especially if you keep the tines sharp.

I grew up on a beef farm about 80 miles outside of Atlanta, Ga and folks were bad about driving out and dumping their pets in the country. Those pets often grew into big dogs that loved to chase and kill cows...especially during calving season. When a dog is on a cow, it's hard to shoot with a shotgun or rifle because you might hit the cow. Same goes for in the city.

Shovels and axes don't get their attention like a good old fashion pitch fork. You can stick them in the side, pull them off the cow, hold them down with the fork and then use the axe/shovel/gun to get rid of them.

I know you will find the right way to deal with this situation.

Keith

[TB Roye]

Mater

I would demand that animal control, city or county come out and pick the dogs up until you go to court. That is the way it is done here in Sacramento. The dog/s are put in quarentine to make sure they do not have rabies. I would really push the legale side of it. But I would also be prepared until court to defend your family and property if the dogs should get out again, I mean get a gun and use it if you have to. I live in area where there are a lot of Pit Bulls owned by some very unresponsible people. When I walk my dog on his leash, I carry my .38 and a baseball bat just in case. I love animals but would shot one if need be. Those dogs are too **** strong I have seen them break some pretty stout chains and knock gates and fences down with out to much trouble. My niece has one of the nicest Pits I have ever seen, lovable and friendly but would not trust him with my dog or grandchildern and she knows and understands why. Good Luck.

Tom

[ryan.s]

No one should have to live in fear at their own home. It's just not right. Please do let us know how this turns out.

[mater]

Guys I really appreciate the advice and responses and especialy the personal emails. I know it is past time for me to do something about these dogs. The Animal Control Officer told me I should have called before but that was water under the bridge and now that they know about it they will take care of it. What they can or will do I don't know. Each time it happened before the neighbors would always tell me how sorry they were and it won't happen again. The thing about the other day is if it happened a few minutes later I wouldn't have been here and my wife, granddaughter and dog would have faced it alone and they would have probably killed my dog because my wife would have to grab the granddaughter and run. My wife's nerves is about shot over this last incident just thinking about what might have happened.

I told her about the phone call last night and what my neighbor wanted us to agree to and she responded with that is like a killer having two guns and you take one and let him keep the other. The problem will still be there. So with that we are going to pursue it thru the legal channel unless they let them out again. Next time I will have something in place other than a shovel. A friend of one of my SIL is an assistant DA so I am going to talk to him about my rights. Hopefully we can get it solved before anything else happens. Usually when we have an episode with one of their dogs they will keep it on a leash for a couple of months. Thanks again for the advice and comments. I certainly appreciate it and also thanks for letting me unload on you guys. You are the greatest.

[jseklund]

I keep hearing a few things here and I just want to STRESS that I don't think it's a good idea to :

A) call their insurance company.
B) Take this through criminal court.

The fact of the matter is that these people are not going to go to jail for this. The biggest place you can hit them is pride/wallet. I would contact a civil attorney FIRST before I do anything. I know this is about protecting your family, not about money- but if you get their insurance cancelled, no civil attorney will take this on contingency. You can't get blood from a stone. If the insurance company is in the dark for a little while, and your attorney has the headstart gathering info to protect you and make sure you get the money- you will be better off than if you give the insurance company a headsup and then go looking for an attorney.

Also, keep in mind that insurance ONLY covers accidents. In order to be criminal, you need to prove "Malice Aforethought" which essentially (although not directly) means- harm done with intention. If you go after them criminally the insurance company will just say- "Sorry, it was on purpose. We only cover accidents." You will then only get the very worst, scumbag attorneys who think they're special or don't know the law to try to circumvent this issue.

After your attorney deals with it, the insurance company will eventually find out and raise their rates. Only they'll go up higher because you'll have one in court. They may not get renewed. I don't see the neighbors doing jailtime for this, unfortunately. Your best bet is to hit the neighbors where you can (pride/money), do whatever you can to protect your family (animal control and incident protection- whichever method you are comfortable with).

I just don't want you to turn off the faucet before you get your drink. I know we all hate lawyers (trust me, I HATE them)- but get a good one who you trust (tough I know) and who knows the system. DA's are good, but I'd find a civil attorney.

[Jeffrey Schronce]

I keep hearing a few things here and I just want to STRESS that I don't think it's a good idea to :

A) call their insurance company.
B) Take this through criminal court.

The fact of the matter is that these people are not going to go to jail for this. The biggest place you can hit them is pride/wallet. I would contact a civil attorney FIRST before I do anything. I know this is about protecting your family, not about money- but if you get their insurance cancelled, no civil attorney will take this on contingency. You can't get blood from a stone. If the insurance company is in the dark for a little while, and your attorney has the headstart gathering info to protect you and make sure you get the money- you will be better off than if you give the insurance company a headsup and then go looking for an attorney.

Also, keep in mind that insurance ONLY covers accidents. In order to be criminal, you need to prove "Malice Aforethought" which essentially (although not directly) means- harm done with intention. If you go after them criminally the insurance company will just say- "Sorry, it was on purpose. We only cover accidents." You will then only get the very worst, scumbag attorneys who think they're special or don't know the law to try to circumvent this issue.

After your attorney deals with it, the insurance company will eventually find out and raise their rates. Only they'll go up higher because you'll have one in court. They may not get renewed. I don't see the neighbors doing jailtime for this, unfortunately. Your best bet is to hit the neighbors where you can (pride/money), do whatever you can to protect your family (animal control and incident protection- whichever method you are comfortable with).

I just don't want you to turn off the faucet before you get your drink. I know we all hate lawyers (trust me, I HATE them)- but get a good one who you trust (tough I know) and who knows the system. DA's are good, but I'd find a civil attorney.

While I happen to agree with not calling the insurance company in order to get them cancelled (dealing passively instead of directly), you should have no fear of the policy being cancelled. We are assuming there is a policy in force for the property owner which includes liabilty. For all we know the company could have excluded dog bite liability, the insured may have a dwelling fire policy with no liability, or may have lapsed insurance. However, if there is a standard homeowners policy in force at the time of incident then it does not matter if it is subsequently cancelled. Homeowners policies are by design occurance based policies not a claims made type policy.

According to Black Law dictonary, malice aforethought is a consideration in murder contemplated by human. I understand you applied the term loosely to this application, however it can not be applied. One can easily be criminally negligent and negligent in civil court. Think DUI cases. Or even murder cases where folks are found guilty in criminal law court and successfully sued in civil court.

The fact that the dog is a known hazard does not constitute an intentional act. The event was sudden and accidental in nature. Even if it was not, you are correct that intentional acts are not covered under Section I of the HO policy (your dwelling, contents, etc) however certain intentional acts are covered under Section II Liability. I was involved in a case in the Pittsburgh area a number of years ago that involved an adult son who occassionally lived in his parents home. He was mentally unstable and could not hold down a job or residence, so he frequently ended up back home. At one given point he DID have his own residence (financed by his father) and went out and killed a bunch of Jewish folks. The victims attorney, looking for any insurance coverage, sued under the parents policy. Note he was not a household resident and he was a grown adult. He committed an intentional act. We paid the HO policy limit of $500,000 and the excess policy limit of $2,000,000 was paid by the excess policy carrier.