Had to call 911 today

[LinuxRandal]

The only other thing I can think to add, is when he calls you (or comes over), tell him you have been advised NOT to talk with him. It leaves him wondering WHAT is going to happen, and should point out, it's already gone to far.

[jseklund]

In response to JeffS-

I agree. I said it wrong. I wouldn't go the criminal route UNTIL I spoke with a lawyer. You CAN go both ways, but sometimes you can get stuck by trying to go both ways too. You need to be very sure of the process- and have a plan. There is a chance that their insurance will not pay if the case can be made that this was not an accident. Criminal Negligence is the route to take, but I would hate to muddy up the waters at this point.

As for worrying about the insurance being cancelled- I wouldn't worry about it eitehr. What I really meant was that I wouldn't let the insurance company start formulating their plan of attack before a good attorney started working on it. The people who move first get to control the process a lot of times. I'd prefer to not have an attorney reacting to the insurance company- but have the insurance reacting to the attorney.

Malice Aforethought is strictly defined in murder- but the idea is that criminal actions must have intent. It does carry over, although maybe not the term itself, into all criminal actions. You can't find someone to be criminal if they do not have intent. DUI- You drank and drove a car intentionally. If you got drunk, and someone put your limp body in a car, with your hands on the wheel, and started rolling it down the street with your foot on the pedal and you had no intention of driving- you would have a hard time proving it, but this would not be criminal.

The case here would be: Did the dog owners know there was an issue? Did they intentionally choose not to do anything to prevent this issue? If you prove that they were intentional, you may still have a case for an accident- but you can see the loophole.

The case of the person strangling his wife in his sleep because he was having a dream about squeezing a lemon shows this- but again- we are back at murder.

Otherwise, I think Jeff probably knows more about it than I do- so he is probably right. Just another angle to consider.

[mater]

I really appreciate all this advice guys because you are bringing up points I had no idea about. I hope I don't have to pursue the matter by suing them. They keep saying it was an accident. They said they would pay the vet bills but when they said it they didn't think my dog was hurt bad. The bill is already over $800.00 with 2 more trips scheduled.

A bright spot this morning.
My wife talked to the AC officer and she said she instructed them to not even bring the dogs out the front door period. They have a small fenced in back yard and she said that was the only place those dogs could be outside. She said she couldn't force them to pay the vet bill if they refused but she advised them to pay it before we went to court next Wed. She also advised them to get those dogs out of this city. They told her that they were building a pen in a nearby city to move them. Also my dog is up and walking a little today. I made him a promise that I would be prepared and if those dogs ever come near him again I will make sure it is the last thing they do.

[Deadhead]

Ken, I'm sorry this happened to you and your family (including your 4-legged family member!) I'm glad you dog is making progress.

This is a long thread, so let me apologize if I'm repeating anything already said, as I can't read the whole thing right now.

Someone mentioned contacting the newspaper. I'd go one step further - local TV stations. There are been several cases here in Virginia over the past year or two where "pet" pit bulls have killed people...adults. Because these cases became high profile, the laws are changing. One woman was even convicted of manslaughter:
http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=1435324

Local television news ran many stories on that case and others that have happened sense. Think of sharing your story as a public service.

[TheRic]

Mater sorry to hear about everything. I would not sign off after they pay the current bill. There could be me down the road. Heck the dog could have mental / emotional scares that you won't notice for months. I'm talking something like how he will react around another dog. We he turn violent because of this, I dearly hope not.

In paying the vet bills, keep track of your mileage, and time, specially if it's away from work. He might not be willing to pay for it all, but then he knows all the extra hassle that is involved. And if it goes to being sued, then you might be able to get some of it back. Won't be able to get it anything back if you didn't keep any records.

Might also want to keep a journal on everything that is going on, every time you or your family talked to them, what was said, etc. It's one thing to say we talked 4 times last week about the incident, it's another to say on Oct 3, 2006 at 17:25 Tom called to discus paying the vet bill ....... More documentation you have, the better off you probably will be.

[TheRic]

Mater sorry to hear about everything. I would not sign off after they pay the current bill. There could be more down the road. Heck the dog could have mental / emotional scares that you won't notice for months. I'm talking something like how he will react around another dog. We he turn violent because of this, I dearly hope not.

In paying the vet bills, keep track of your mileage, and time, specially if it's away from work. He might not be willing to pay for it all, but when he knows all the extra hassle that is involved, he might be willing to pay the full vet bill. If it goes as fall as him being sued, then you might be able to get some of it back. Won't be able to get it anything back if you didn't keep any records.

Might also want to keep a journal on everything that is going on, every time you or your family talked to them, lawyer, AC, what was said, etc. It's one thing to say we talked 4 times last week about the incident, it's another to say on Oct 3, 2006 at 17:25 Tom called to discus paying the vet bill ....... More documentation you have, the better off you probably will be.

[onedash]

I sure wouldn't try to poison those dogs. Then you would probably be the one in jail....If they were in your yard and you kill them with a gun or other weapon because you were in danger Im sure it would be better.
Let us know what the ADA says.

[scorrpio]

Insurance is a shaky thing. If somewhere in the fine print it says that dangerous animals have to be disclosed and paid for accordingly, they can give the slip. If premiums on the dogs weren't paid, insurance can refuse the claim. Now I do not recall if I was asked about owning any large animals when I was getting my HO insurance, but still.

Any case, if the insurance would not foot the bill, collateral is right next to your house. They sure own some equity in their home. If they have to sell in order to pay you the damages, so much the better - you'll be rid of them as well.

And I would still get a weapon. Just a note: if it's a shotgun, load it with slugs, not buckshot. Might be also a good idea to get some riot slugs (rubber flats, sluggers) and load one of these in front of real sabot slugs.

[oakchas]

Ken.

DO NOT SIGN OFF ON ANYTHING! NO NOT ONE THING.

You are a nice guy. You are too nice. These people have used your neighbors, you and your family, your GRANDDAUGHTER fer chrissakes, as doormats.

If the owner were a child molester on the national registry, and approached your granddaughter once and promised not to do it again, would you sign off?

These dogs could have KILLED your granddaughter... Even as you beat it off with the shovel... some pit bulls do not release their jaw even if DEAD. A knowledgeable pit owner carries a break stick which will break the jaw grip of a "locked" pit bull.

Regardless of what has been said, this is criminal negligence... AT the VERY LEAST. And "intent" may not be necessary.

Please Ken... QUIT trying to save a relationship with the neighbors... You have "turned the other cheek" too many times already... Even the Lord himself would not have tolerated this abuse.

Others have advised you... rightly... GET A LAWYER! not your sis's best bud, not bobby's best friend... LAWYER UP! get real serious... right now.. Get a real serious lawyer... If you have an atty of your own, ask for a referral to someone he would'nt want to go against if he were representing your neighbors.

It's too late to nip this in the bud.. It's TIME Ken. Put an end to this... Your granddaughter, if you are lucky, won't remember this. These dogs have nearly gotten away with murder... and more than once.

EVERYBODY I have told about this has said the dogs would not be alive to have done this they would have been dispatched LOOOONG AGO.

Well, the dogs are still alive... and your grandaughter is lucky to be... and your dog is verrry lucky to be... If anything happens with these dogs in the future when they are in those supposed pens out of town (they would never be let out without a leash, remember?... there ain't no PENS, Ken...)

Ken, Stop them and their ignorant owners before they kill... I hate to guilt trip you... but had you done the right thing before, this would not have happened... DO THE RIGHT THING NOW... END IT.

I am truly sorry for my attitude and demeanor on this... But In all sincerity, I am trying to get you off the dime.... And I have just that tiny bit of concern for a fellow woodworker that frequents this site, as I do... A total stranger in reality, To BEG YOU TO DO THE RIGHT THING!

[Wood_workur]

definatly get a gun/gun license, and what ever else you need to carry a gun legally. Then install som security cameras around the perimiter of your house, showing all 4 sides and your neighbors yard. The camers arn't that expensive, and the can be wireless, and motion activated, and send the video to your computer.

[mater]

Update

Update

My neighbor paid me the vet bill Tues and we had to go to court today.

They will have to move the dogs out of the city and have then neutered. They are building a pen outside of this city and the AC officer is telling them how it must be built. My neighbor said it should be completed by this weekend and then the dogs will be gone. The AC officer told me I shouldn't have to see the dogs again as they are instructed to take them into a fenced area for them to relieve themselves. Also if my dog needs any more medical attention they will have to pay that also. Hopefully this is the end of it and we can go forward from here. My dog " Hunter " seems to be healing fine.

[Jeffrey Schronce]

Great news!

Is this pen at someone elses house or something? That is strange.

[mater]

Great news!

Is this pen at someone elses house or something? That is strange.

Jeffrey, It is at someone's house but I don't know the name. They had some pictures of the work that has been done and AC is monitoring the work.

[Ken Massingale]

This is good news Ken. Now you guys can go outside and enjoy it.
ken

[SHADOWFOX]

Glad to hear "Hunter" is doing well!! Also glad to hear that you and your family can now go and enjoy your property without the fear of them darn pitbulls getting out of your neighbors house.