Pot Houses

[TB Roye]

We have a new phenomenon in Nothern California especially around Sacrameto and its suburbs. Aisian gangs from LA and San Francisco have bought houses in the nicer developements around here including my oldest son's home (they moved to Idaho) and have turned them into Pot growing operations. I am talking about 2000+sqft homes with 3 car garages. They remove carpet and doors and install false walls in front of windows and then install drip irrigation and grow lights. They bypass the electric meter and plant up to 3000 pot plants. People started wondering why their new neighbors were not taking care of the landscape and were very unsociable. So far they have raided over 30 house in Sacramento, El Grove, Stockton and the Modesto area. Evidently the people were selling their houses in LA and the Bay Area for big profits and buying up here and having money left over to purchase the nesessary equipment to start their operations. They figure they have been doing this over the last 3 years or so. My son and his family moved to Idaho 2 years ago after selling their house to one of the suspects for $460K. People now are alerting the DEA and Police about suspect houses in their neighborhoods, we have one down the street that we turned in the other day we have not seen anything yet. On the houses they have raided they figure up to $3 million worth of pot from each house so the profit margin is there especially if they have gotten a couple of crops out before the raids.
The latest is a medical Pot operation down in the central valley, very large haul out of there, found two or three house tied to that operation.
Tom

[lcm1947]

I don't know what to say except that this world is getting to be a sad place to live. Sad, sad, sad!.

[JR]

With all that money on the line, somebody's likely to get shot. I know in Sonoma and Mendocino counties you don't want to hike in an area you are unfamiliar with for fear of stumbling accross a guarded farm.

Keep your head down!

JR

[TB Roye]

Hey we used to go Steelhead fishing on the Klamath river up in what they called the Golden triangle we came across pot farms as we hiked the tributaries of the river fishing but that was in the fall after the harvest. We carried pistols in our waders just incase and not 22's, big guns. This year as really been big as far as pot farms and operations being busted. In the late 70's I was an Auto Tech for the CHP in far Northern CA and every time a Vette or real nice Pickup or other expensive car was sold for cash the dealer would notify law enforcement and they would go check it out. Crooks no mater how sophisticated are still screw up and get caught.

Tom

[bigsteel15]

Nothing new guys. I've known about guys doing the houses up here in Canada for 15+ years now.
HUGE money in it for the guys that are NOT taking the risk.
they'd put them all out of business if they would decrim it.

[maxparot]

Maybe it's past time for the gov't to face facts. Pot is not a gateway drug, It is less harmful than alcohol, and has many postive virtues in medical and textile industies. It should have been decriminalized and commercialized many years ago. It can then be regulated and taxed.

[LCHIEN]

sounds weird to me.
You'd think with $3M on the line they'd pay the paltry few hundred in electric bills and not piss anyone off un-necessarily who might bring the law.
I can see maybe how they get a lot of dirt in (pretending to landscape the back yard) and then bring seeds. But how do they harvest a houseful of the stuff when it's time? Are their neighbors stupid?

[25]

Probbably not stupid, just oblivious. Would you think someone was doing that in a large home next to you? Thats what the home owners associations are for, to send letters and fine people. Less confrontational and all.

If you don't have an attached garage harvesting I think would be easy, just use garbage bags. If you're overly parinoid just make it look like your taking out the trash. I would think there are lots of ways to move mass quantites of the stuff without being overly obvious.

If you have an attached garage, it would be really easy.

[bigsteel15]

sounds weird to me.
You'd think with $3M on the line they'd pay the paltry few hundred in electric bills and not piss anyone off un-necessarily who might bring the law.

The reason they bypass the meter is because the number one problem is the electrical companies have flags raise when consumption goes up drastic and they alert the authorities.
You can imagine the bill when running a few dozen sodium or halogen bulbs drawing 1000+ watts each.

They've started allowing fire dept. up here enter homes deemed to be a potential fire hazard. Only when no-one home and with police. they call it the green team and it's been extremely successful.

[onedash]

I saw a thing about it on TV years ago. It was about houses in Canada where it was grown hydraphonicly (water) instead of in dirt and all the fertalizer and hormones and whaterver was fed like an IV into the water. And they said it had so much THC in it it could kill a first time user....And it was flowing into the US unchecked since border security was almost non existant.
I think it was prior to 9/11 and I don't know if anything has changed since...

[germdoc]

"Hey Hon, guess what? Willie Nelson just moved in next door! Looks like he's doing a lot of remodelling and landscaping..."

Not to quibble Onedash, but THC has a very low toxicity in terms of life-threatening effects and there has never been a recorded fatality. I for one would like to see someone try to smoke several kg of marijuana in one sitting...would be pretty entertaining.

Wiki's entry on THC:

"THC has a LD50 value of 1270 mg/kg (male rats) and 730 mg/kg (female rats) administered orally dissolved in sesame oil.

If this were scaled up to an adult human, the lethal dose would be between approximately 50 and 86 g for a 68 kg (150 lb) person. This would be equivalent to 1-1.8 kg of marijuana with a 5% THC content (roughly average) taken orally (much more if smoked). It is important to note, however, that toxicity studies in animal models do not necessarily correlate to human toxicity. THC receptor distribution in the rat CNS is different from that of humans, meaning that there is the significant possibility that toxicity in humans varies from the published animal LD50 studies. There has never been a documented fatality from marijuana or THC overdose.

Studies of the distribution of the cannabinoid receptors in the brain explain why THC's toxicity is so low (i.e., the LD50 of the compound is so large): parts of the brain that control vital functions such as respiration do not have many receptors, so they are relatively unaffected even by doses larger than could ever be ingested under any normal conditions."

[DUD]

We had an young man at home who was not too bright. He put skylights in his roof, but they only helped the attic have sunshine, several skylights. He then took out the ceiling insulation and replaced it with dirt, I guess it does the same thing.

He planted his crop and was doing fine until weight, or gravity brought his farm down one level with him under it. Fire department came, then Police, I believe He's working on the state farm now. Bill

[scorrpio]

One Saturday morning, our doorbell sounds. I go check the door, and there is an elderly gentleman, who presents an FBI ID and says he wants to ask some questions. Then, he proceeds to tell that owner of the second house to our right, other side of street, a Vietnamese, is 'getting a security clearance', so they are checking him out - and wonders if we ever observed any strange or suspicious activity there. Well, we respond that with all the greenery, houses are pretty isolated, so we really only see what's going on at the house directly across, plus at the time we moved in less than 6 months ago - and other than occasional party involving lots of parked cars (we hear those Vietnamese families are quite large), we don't recall seeing anything unusual when driving by. He thanks us and leaves.

About 2-3 months later, the house in question has a 'For Sale' sign.

Hmmm....

[jseklund]

Not to call anyone out, but I tend to stray from the norm on the entire "pot" issue. It seems to be the mainstream thinking that there is absolutely NO harm in Marijuana, and that it has MANY medical benefits and that it should be legalized. Maybe I paid too much attention to the police coming into my elementary school as a kid and telling us that drugs are the devil, or maybe I've done too much research on my own- I don't know.

Germdoc- You bring up some valid and good points. The LD50 for Marijuana is pretty low. However, that is the dose that KILLS half a population directly. It is also the dose for THC only, and not marijuana. Yes, I agree, that if you want to kill yourself in one dose- pot is NOT the way to go. But then again, drug overdoses seem to be a bad choice for suicide in general. You'd be more likely to die from inhaling the fumes of burning pine as your house burned down than inhaling a hit of mary jane. So, while good info to have, and useful, it is only a piece of the puzzle.


The fact is that pot SMOKERS generally inhale THREE TIMES as much tar per puff than a cigarette smoker. (They take longer puffs and the tar content isn't all that different I believe). There have also been studies linking it to increased risk of heart attack after using it. So, while the death may not be reported as "Marijuana induced"- it gets reported as death by heart attack. There is, admittedely, no evidence to prove ANY deaths by marijuana-induced heart attacks, but it's not something we generally look for. Just "Heart Attack". Now, this has to be taken in perspective too- a large meal also increases your chances of having a heart attack directly after the meal. But it's another interesting piece of the puzzle.

I have seen studies that show cannabinoids directly impair cognitive function. This means, again, you get death by car hitting tree or another vehicle, but not by Marijuana. Again, in perspective- I can hit a tree when not smoking pot too.

As for long term cognitive impairment- I have subjective experience that shows a lot of people I know who smoke pot heavily for years- tend to be slower and "foggier" than people who used it more moderately or not at all. This seems to last even after quitting. I can also usually pick out people who've smoked for years by talking to them. Not 100% (some people are just foggy), but I'm sure you'd have a similar hit ratio. I am not saying I can pick out someone who took 1-2 hits in their life, but I can usually pick out the person who has taken 1-2 hits a day for years.

Maxparot makes a good point when he says that Marijuana is less dangerous than alcohol, and that is should be legalized. I agree that if alcohol is legal- then we really can't justify ANY drugs being illegal. This may sound crazy, but why would we make any drug illegal? It seems to be an economic decision- we make things harder to get when their risk/benefit ratio is such that it costs society more to have them available than to restrict them. What drug has cost society more than alcohol? Lost days at work, liver poisoning, mental health issues, etc- Even crack doesn't cost us as much as alcohol does. So if Jim Bean is legal, why isn't Mary Jane?

However, the fact that alcohol is a less dangerous drug (dangerous is tough to define in these things) than something like, Cocaine, and is legal demonstrates that making a drug illegal does, in fact, reduce its cost to society. If cocaine and alcohol were equally available and used, you would expect greater costs to society associated with cocaine. Cocaine, however, doesn't create nearly as much of a cost- so logic would SUGGEST, illegality has a role (again a piece of a puzzle) in reducing costs.

As for the medical uses of Marijuana- this is just group think of the public. I don't think there is a lot of good evidence that Marijuana is what people think it is. All the experts and data I have seen suggest that while it MAY have some uses, we have drugs that are safer and better for all of these possible uses. So, even if it were legal, it would get used very little- and shouldn't be a doctors first choice.

And finally, the philosophical issue that I have found in the fact that a lot of "pot smokers" like to say, "We should make it legal- look at all the medical uses!" Well, if you weren't smoking it for recreation, maybe it would be legal, and then these people who are in such great and dire need of pot for their stomachs could use it! If it's such a life saver, your recreational use is, philosophically, akin to accessory to murder.

Making drugs legal or illegal is a complex issue, and Marijuana isn't going to kill you flat out. It is not the devil. I don't think it's a smart choice to be making for recreation. BUT, having said that- that's my personal decision. The bottom line is that we need fewer laws and more education. Too many people make uninformed decisions (lack of education) and we try to solve that problem with another law. We're hacking away at the leaves instead of striking at the root.

Sorry for the political-type rant. I don't fault anyone else for their views, but I see things a little differently. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe I'm right. Maybe I need to get back to learning to woodwork

[scorrpio]

It is my belief that cocaine costs a GREAT deal more than alcohol. All the money spent on drug-related law enforcement. Legal costs of prosecuting drug cases. Crimes committed to get money for drugs. Cost of keeping drug convicts in jail. The accompanying gun market for drug gangs. And while oil figures a great deal in terrorist funding, drug money is also VERY prominent.

Really, make it legal, make it available cheap, but be sure to put out strong propaganda advising against it. Illegality is what appeals to many youngsters. Doing drugs is risky, rebellious, cool. Well, if it becomes about as rebellious as drinking beer, it is gonna lose a lot of its flair real quick.