An Ethical Question

[JoeyGee]

Here is an entirely hypothetical question...Let's say you are at a garage sale and find a set of antique hand planes (or insert desired tool here) for sale at a ridiculously cheap price--say $5.00 for items worth over hundreds. The items are being sold by someone that has no clue what they are worth--let's say a widow.

Do you snatch them up with visions of a gloat thread in your head?

Do you offer her more money?

Do you offer her advice to sell them to a dealer, or someone else in the know?

I know I want to tell her to sell for more, but I also know a dark part of me would snatch them up--and feel guilty every time I saw and/or used them.

[DUD]

I think We all have found bargains at a garage sale. In this instance, I would buy them for listed price, if I were to sell them, I would bring Her back a commission, say 10% or so. If I kept them I'd just brag on it. But whatever I did, I wouldn't bring it up at the sale. Bill

[LCHIEN]

that's a good question - in theory they will be very happy to have sold it for $5 or whatever and accomplished their goal of getting rid of said item that was taking up space.

OTOH, if you get the item for cheap it was because you had hard-earned knowledge that revealed the true value to you. So you deserve it.

OTOH, if its a poor widow, would you cheer for the guy who bought your beloved BT3100 for $5 or would you prefer he paid here a fair price of say $200?

And finally, suppose you pointed out the plane was $5 but was worth more and you offered her $25 and she decided not to sell it at all, maybe take it to a dealer and find the true value? The you have lost out because of your generosity.

Tough question - Good question. No solid answer.

[Stytooner]

I think its whatever you can sleep with.
There is no hard and fast rule. However, the "Do unto others....." clause comes into play with me. There is also the "CYA cause ain't nobody else gonna do it as well as you" aspect to the situation.
Personally, if it's a Widow getting rid of tools that she can't even move herself, then I would offer more. The way I generally do this is to give more cash than what was asked. When they say I paid to much, I just say the rest is for Shipping and Handling.
If it's an Ex, pay the listed price, cause her new Boyfriend may show up and claim or change the price at anytime.

[Wood_workur]

give her a twenty/fifty, and run with the planes, telling her to keep the change as a gift for her greivences (in the case of a widow, or someother reason, for anybody else),so she thinks you were just being nice, not really paying her what she should really be selling them for. Then you don't feel guilty, and she has a little more money.

[Warren]

I am averse to taking advantage of the ignorant, and would take no pleasure in using items so acquired. I would explain the value and offer a fair price. I would have no feeling of loss by doing the right thing. I'm extremely cynical by nature, "always expect the worst in people, that way you'll never be disappointed and sometimes pleasantly surprised", but in my limited experierence a price would be arrived at that would be satisfactory to both parties, allowing me a smile each time I use the tool. If not, it's no great loss.

As an aside, I'm often pleasantly surprised by the members of this forum and only rarely disappointed.

[LinuxRandal]

There is no hard and fast rule at all, and every situation is different.

I bought a couple of tools, cheap ($25 worm saw, skill 77 and $20 for a 3/8 facom torque wrench) from a friend of a friend who was dying of cancer. He wasn't wanting much because he wanted to know they went to a home where they would be used and appreciated. If he thought you were a keep up with the jones, type, he wanted a lot more (if he would sell them to you). His wife didn't have a clue what he had or it's worth, and she just wanted the "censored" gone, as she didn't want to deal with it. He wanted to use the money for something fun, before he died, but that wasn't looking good due to the pain management medicine.
That was my last experience. but I have been given stuff by those who know I would appreciate it, and also told people what things are worth (both when they are high and low, ever see a $5.00 quart of oil).

[venkatbo]

I've done a couple of things in the past:
. donated funds to a needy cause in their name
. bought another item and paid more for the combined set of things.
They are happy to unload more things (the purpose of their garage sale)
and get more than expected. Everyone is happy. No sleep lost over it.
/venkat

[rickd]

when i go to a garage sale i'm looking for deals 'dirt cheap'! i know what everyone is saying here about the 'ethical' thing to do and i feel the same way most times. when a clerk at a store gives me too much change, i'll tell them; if i'm not charged for an item i'll mention it and get it corrected. otherwise, it feels a bit like stealing.

but, to me, a garage sale is different. the seller determines the price he/she is willing to sell the item for. i almost never pay that price - asking if they will take $$$ instead? in a case, where it's a real deal, like the planes example, i simply offer the full price asked and thank them for a great deal!

my take on garage sales is that it isn't what the item is 'actually' worth - it's what the item for sale is worth to the 'seller'. in the case of a poor widow - she has lot's of other options. take her items to an auction, have an appraiser look at them etc. with the example of the 'planes' - what would she do with them? to her, there just junk taking up room and she's proably happy to get $5.

so, for me, i tend to look at a garage sale a little differently than other financial dealings. i pretty much go buy the price asked and anything i can negotiate after that.

[TheRic]

when i go to a garage sale i'm looking for deals 'dirt cheap'!
.....
the seller determines the price he/she is willing to sell the item for.
...
my take on garage sales is that it isn't what the item is 'actually' worth - it's what the item for sale is worth to the 'seller'.

I agree alot with what rickd is saying. We have had a family garage sale for years. I have gotten rid of some things dirt cheap just to get rid of it, didn't need / want it, it was taking up to much space. Didn't want to hassle with finding someone who is willing to buy it for what it's really worth.

Lets say you see something at a garage sale that your willing to pay more for. It's worth more to YOU but to the next person you would have to pay them to take it away. I have seen many people walk thru the garage sale not even look at the price, because they don't want it ANY price, to them it's nothing but JUNK.

If you find something that your willing to pay more that it's listed for when do you speak up? When it's worth 5% more? 25% more? 100%more? 1000% more? 1,000,000% more? where do you draw the line?

[Warren]

My take on the original question was that the seller did not know the fair value of the item and was trying to make some needed money, not simply get rid of stuff. If I ran up a against an art dealer selling a a verified Rembrandt for a pittance I'd jump on it in heartbeat, no qualms. Same with a spurned wife selling the proverbial Ferrari for 20 dollars. But, I wouldn't, or couldn't take advantage of someone, trying to make a few needed dollars. No sir! Couldn't do it to save my soul.

If a person is simply trying to get rid of stuff, one man's trash another man's treasure, I'd pay the asking price no questions. Twice I've told widows that their husband's firearm was worth a heck of a lot more than they were asking. One lady insisted that I take the weapon at the asking price as I seemed to appreciate it and would look after it. The other, a pre 64 Winchester was purchased for $100.00 dollars more than the asking price, still considerably less than the $1000.00 I got for it when I resold it. She wanted to be fair and was thankful for the extra dollars.

Nope, I won't take advantage of the ignorant and uninformed.

[cabinetman]

I agree with everything everybody is saying. When I go to a garage sale, the last thing on my mind is to find out the financial condition of the seller. It's a simple principle, to mind my own business, so that I don't have to think about anything except gettin' all that dang rust off of the plane.

OK, here's a scenario. For all you know, the little ole lady selling those items had killed someone and robbed them blind, gathered all the tools, took them home and put on a garage sale. If you knew all that, would you still offer more for the pieces.

OK, here's another. The little ole lady selling those items was the sister of a very sick woodworker. He had a cat named something like Munchy, or Smellums, and the cat used to cuddle up on top of the planes on the workbench while he carved away on some wood. It gave him so much pleasure to see the cat take to the tools like that he told his sister that when he dies, to give for free, those tools to some young woodworker who would cherish them. After his death, the sister gathered up the tools and put on a garage sale, and put prices on them because she is a greedy malicious witch that only has her own interest in mind. If you knew that, would you still offer more for the pieces.

Moral: What we don't know won't hurt us.
Post Facto Moral: Thinking that we should know what we don't know is a no-no.



"I'M NEVER WRONG - BUT I'M NOT ALWAYS RIGHT"

[Pappy]

Sorry, but they set the price. If I feel it is too high, I will make an offer. If the price looks reasonable or a bargain to me, I am not going to up the ante.

[captbooshz]

It's funny, we went out to garage sales this morning for the first time in a year or so.

We were able to find quite a few items to resell and make a little $$$ on. We also happened upon a guy that had done some remodeling on his house and had doors and other items. I called a friend that was looking for some nice doors, arranged for him to pick them up later, and paid for them then. I picked up a lot of railing and spindles from his stairs demo for $4, which was great because I need to build about a 10' rail for a ledge and this will just about take care of it.

I say all of that to say, when we go to garage sales, we look as much for a good bargain on something we want/need as for items that we can pickup cheap and ebay to make a few extra $$$. If someone is concerned with getting top dollar for some items they want to sell, they don't have a garage sale. Garage sales are for getting rid of stuff you don't want but know that someone else might.

If I knew, for sure, that someone was in need and unknowingly selling for $5 something that was worth $1000, I would offer them more for the item and risk loosing it by informing them. I love a good deal. I'm frugal, but not a cheat.


Brian.

[Warren]

At the risk of irritating a few, I'm not a fan of situational ethics. Politicians love situational ethics. but to me something is either right or wrong. I tend to view the world in black and white, too many years in a black and white I suspect.

The question stated that the person selling had no idea of the worth and was selling at a ridiculous price. To me there is a difference between getting a bargin and simply taking advantage of someone.

I infer from the structure of the question that the seller is a widow in need of funds. She is not getting rid of junk. She has no clue as to the real value. And she is selling for pennies on the dollar. Clearly this scenerio this is not about getting rid of junk. It's about a person selling a loved one's property.

I think, to answer JoeyGee's question fairly one should only consider the facts stated and not reconstruct it. Perhaps I'm taking the question too seriously. If so, I apologize. I do think that we should stick with the crux of the question. Would you or would you not take unfair advantage of a widow selling off her husband's tools at a ridiculous price or would you give her a chance to change the price and then either buy or pass?

I'll try and keep my keyboard still from here on out and only monitor the responses for my own edification as I find the answers to the scenerio fascinating so far.