An Ethical Question

[rosesunkist]

Whenever I go to a yard sale, garage sale, or estate sale, I really just keep my eyes open for any good deals. But of course if I feeel I am ripping them off by giving them the asking price, I ask them several times if they are sure about the price. If they stay at the same price, I pay it. Or if they ask why I am asking them over and over, I tell them what I think it really is worth.

A few years ago I went to an estate sale and I found a drill bit holder. Heavy metal, real fancy looking, so I got it for $5. That night I did some research online and found out it was worth around $60, so I'm glad I got it. And I didn't feel bad one bit about getting a good deal.

In one of my garage sales, I sold a Black & Decker sander, I think it was the Mouse. I got it as a gift, but it vibrated way too much for my liking and the little dust bag kept coming loose. I think it retailed for $60, but I only used it 3 times, so I let it go for $20, practically brand new. Did the same thing with a car dustbuster, retailed for $50(gift again), sold it for $20 still in the box.

So you never know why someone is selling things cheap. And yeah, the people that bought my sander and dustbuster asked me several times if I was sure about the price, so it appears that I'm not the only one that has my outlook towards garage sales.

[cgallery]

The question stated that the person selling had no idea of the worth and was selling at a ridiculous price. To me there is a difference between getting a bargin and simply taking advantage of someone.

I infer from the structure of the question that the seller is a widow in need of funds. She is not getting rid of junk. She has no clue as to the real value. And she is selling for pennies on the dollar. Clearly this scenerio this is not about getting rid of junk. It's about a person selling a loved one's property.

It isn't too hard to determine why someone is having a rummage sale. If I happened on an older lady whose husband had passed and she was selling his things to help pay for her medication, there is NO WAY I'm going to buy a spot in **** by giving her $5 for a box of old tools that are worth $1000. If I thought she had no other way to get top dollar (dealers can be brutal), I might be inclined to buy the stuff, sell it on eBay, and then deliver an envelope of cash to her.

OTOH, if she says the stuff is just cluttering up the house and she is getting ready to move in with her daughter and she just wants to find someone that will appreciate the stuff for what it is worth, I'd jump at the chance.

[just4funsies]

Let your conscience be your guide. A starving old widow trying to eke out a few bucks for her next meal is one thing. A dealer at a swap meet who would surely take advantage of you if he knew the real value is another thing. And a guy in a million dollar house, who is having the sale because his diamond-encrusted wife is too cheap to throw anything out is yet another thing.

[rickd]

......The items are being sold by someone that has no clue what they are worth--let's say a widow.....

this interesting thread pretty much demonstrates the difficulty in trying to answer hypothethical questions - and shows why so many just refuse to try. the problem with most hypotheticals is the large number of variables and the vastly different interpretations given by everyone to the question.

for instance, we have discussed a widow, a widow who may need money for medication, she may be short on funds etc. but, the original question only mentions the quote above - "let's say a widow".

so, there are lot's of 'rich widows'! how about that? does that change anything ethically? predetermining that the widow is poor, helpless and in need of money for medical purposes really makes all of us who go for bargains at garage sales seem rather heartless, cruel and dishonest.

so again, unless the person has a sign posted giving the reason for the sale(like the guy on the corner begging for 'food' money), i'm still of the opinion that garage sales are usually for getting rid of stuff the seller just doesn't want anymore - take it away or it goes to the garbage dump!

my answer to the hypothetical question is still a hypothetical 'yes' - i'd grab the planes and say 'thank you, this is a great deal, i've been looking for something like this for a long time, you've made my day"!

p.s. some of our better garage sale bargains(err..... ripoffs?):
http://www.rickswoodworking.ca/garage_sale_finds.htm

[JoeyGee]

Wow, this has been fun reading...

I really had no motive, or any pre-determined hypothesis on how the answers would fall, I just thought it would be an interesting question.

As to having too many variables, or situational ethics, that is part of why I posted the question--it was very open. Obviously there is no right or wrong, or even Classical ethical way of answering, but the fun is in the many different interperatations (that looks spelled wrong, but I am too lazy to look it up...) to the question and the answers that result.

That was fun.

[RickCarpenter]

I know I want to tell her to sell for more, but I also know a dark part of me would snatch them up--and feel guilty every time I saw and/or used them.

Very simple. If the price was low enough to cause a "conscience call," then do the right thing. Tell them/him/her that it's worth probably $xxx and a fair garage sale price would be $yyy, do you want to still sell it at the asking price?

What would you do if this was a next door neighbor, friend, or a family member? What would you want someone else to do if it was you?

Again, very simple.

Rick

[Warren]

"Conscience call," I like that! Well put!

[Scrollist]

I know what I would do

An acquaintance "back home" was getting a divorce and was awarded the couple's car in the settlement. She offered the car to me for $7,000.00 to clear the debt she and her ex had accumulated. I told her that I couldn't take advantage of her and that she should list the 1968 Corvette in mint condition for about tripple that money. She sold it in a week.

[JBCrooks]

Let's look at this from the other way...

I die tomorrow and my wife starts selling off my tools in a garage sale. There are really only a couple of scenarios that can play out:

1: We were both stupid and didn't provide for life insurance to keep her from being desperate. She lists the plane at $5 because she's too lazy to do the homework on what its worth. In this case, she is going to wind up in a bad situation no matter what. If you paid her $100 or even $1000 for it, nothing changes except putting off the inevitable for a few days.

2: I left her with insurance or some other means of taking care of herself. She lists the plane at $5 because she has no use for it. It is a paperweight to her and that is what the value of the tool is to her: $5.

The "worth" of any item is always dependant on the buyer and the seller. Its the same reason that the anti-price gouging laws are a joke. That $100 chainsaw may well be 'worth' $500 to me if there is a tree laying in my roof that I need to move to save the contents of my home.
Its just not a good idea to try to force your value of an item onto someone else.

[LCHIEN]

Let's look at this from the other way...

...
1: We were both stupid and didn't provide for life insurance to keep her from being desperate. She lists the plane at $5 because she's too lazy to do the homework on what its worth. In this case, she is going to wind up in a bad situation no matter what. If you paid her $100 or even $1000 for it, nothing changes except putting off the inevitable for a few days.

.

You know, to do the homework on a plane, would take hours of on-line searching, amassing knowledge she is likely never to need again.
Then it would take experience, knowing what Jappaning is and its relative condition and whether or not a bolt is stripped. and how to measure if the sole is flat.

Don't forget it might take 10 hours just to identify that its a plane (does it say "plane" anywhere on that STanley #7?)
Lets say 20 hours of research and lots of false leads.

Now multiply that times the number of objects in the garage that she is not familiar with...

The number of items and the liklihood that they'll turn out to be valuable makes it unlikely that even if she identifies a few $1000 items that it will be worth the time and effort to do the research.

[Joe Lyddon]

when i go to a garage sale i'm looking for deals 'dirt cheap'! i know what everyone is saying here about the 'ethical' thing to do and i feel the same way most times. when a clerk at a store gives me too much change, i'll tell them; if i'm not charged for an item i'll mention it and get it corrected. otherwise, it feels a bit like stealing.

but, to me, a garage sale is different. the seller determines the price he/she is willing to sell the item for. i almost never pay that price - asking if they will take $$$ instead? in a case, where it's a real deal, like the planes example, i simply offer the full price asked and thank them for a great deal!

my take on garage sales is that it isn't what the item is 'actually' worth - it's what the item for sale is worth to the 'seller'. in the case of a poor widow - she has lot's of other options. take her items to an auction, have an appraiser look at them etc. with the example of the 'planes' - what would she do with them? to her, there just junk taking up room and she's proably happy to get $5.

so, for me, i tend to look at a garage sale a little differently than other financial dealings. i pretty much go buy the price asked and anything i can negotiate after that.

I agree with all except I will leave you with this thought...

If it was a poor widow, who obviously needed help, with kids, etc.

If she was your widow, how would you hope she would be treated?

I think I'd have more feelings toward a person in need and truly try to help them rather than not helping her... My hobby would not be worth the feeling I would get everytime I looked at or used whatever was purchased.

IMHO...

[jnesmith]

It isn't too hard to determine why someone is having a rummage sale.

To me it is. I'm not that nosey. Their motive, and their personal situation, are none of my business. If it's a good deal, I would buy it. It would take a very unusual set of circumstances for me to pay far more than a willing seller was asking.