Ethanol in Gas?

[LCHIEN]

At the pump in the last day or two in shock while paying some of the highest prices in recent memory (post katrina is now a memory),
I see this new sticker saying my gasoline may contain up to 10% ethanol.

I guess it's been coming, who knows the story here and is it completely transparent to the car's engine or are there going to be some differences?

[scmhogg]

Loring.

We've had 10% ethanol here in California during the summer, since MTBs were outlawed.

I have not detected any discernable difference when the formulae change.

I do, however, object to putting anything I could drink in the tank of a car.

By the way, gas prices here in SoCal, cheapest regular $2.97.

Steve

[Curly Qsawn]

All gasoline is blended to reduce pollution. MTBE was the blend, but has been on the bad boy list by the EPA. Refiners are moving to Ethanol as the blend. E85 (an 85% ethanol 15% gas mix) is suppose to be cheaper, but you don't get as good of mileage. All cars are able to run on a 90/10 blend just fine. You may notice a slight drop in mileage if you switched from a batch that had MTBE in it. A lot of the new Chevy's have window stickers that say Flexible Fuel vehicle which means it will run on E85. No worries with a 10% blend. Ethanol availability may be contributing to the rise in prices.

[parnelli]

At the pump in the last day or two in shock while paying some of the highest prices in recent memory (post katrina is now a memory),
I see this new sticker saying my gasoline may contain up to 10% ethanol.

I guess it's been coming, who knows the story here and is it completely transparent to the car's engine or are there going to be some differences?

Ethanol has less energy per gallon than gas, so with the E85(15% ethanol) there is a decrease in milage which unfortunately typically more than completely offsets the price difference.

As for 10%, it's been at least 10 years since I've seen 100% gas, it's all blend up here in Illinois.

[LCHIEN]

I see in my internet search that E10 (10% alcohol blend)
has only 97% of the energy of 100% gasoline so I'm going to have a small net decrease in fuel efficiency, as if it wasn't bad enough paying higher prices.

[just4funsies]

Yeah, but at least the money is going to corn farmers in the US, rather than to oil sheiks in the Middle East...

[Stick]

And don't use ethanol blend gas in anything old enough to have a carburetor. It eats seals and diaphragms. We've had it up here for decades, but since I only own one fuel injected vehicle and it's parked because of constant very expensive repairs, I buy all regular gas.

[thiggy]

For you folks where ethanol blends are sold - is gasoline without ethanol also available? My concern is will I still be able to get non-blended gasoline for use in my '64 VW (mechanical fuel pump, rubber diaphram in the accelerator pump).

[AlanJ]

My truck (Ford Explorer) will run on E85 (85% ethanol (made from corn)). This would be great if it was a worthwhile option... You get less mpg from E85 and therefore you need to do the math to determine if it's a good option. In my area it's not. The owners of gas stations selling E85 set the price so that it is barely worthwhile buying it, based on price/performance - even though they get all sorts of federal subsidies to promote it's use.

Prior to the hike in prices last year it was a good deal. That's no longer the case and since there's only one local station selling E85, it's not worth the nuisance to go out of the way to fill up there.

It's a great idea, but greed is killing it,

[Stick]

We can still get non-ethanol fuel as well. There is one chain that sells ethanol only, but all the rest either have both or just non-ethanol (so far). I actually think blended fuels and biodiesel are a wonderful idea, but surprisingly enough in an agricultural area, biodiesel is not sold, and blended gasoline is fine for newer vehicles, but I and most others in my area think it's just a means of forcing older vehicles off the road, thus ultimately profiting the big car companies. A sad state, when we are driving older vehicles because of their simplicity, reliability and better fuel economy compared to similar vehicles of today. We really don't care how many cup holders or 12V outlets our vehicles have, we want to be able to keep them running. And all that power window, door lock, mirror, heated seat jazz is just something else to screw up. Farmers can't afford to have $55,000 pickups in the dealership getting fixed again, our 30 year ones will at least run when we need them. If they do break down, they're simple, cheap and quick to fix.

[beetee3]

Yeah, but at least the money is going to corn farmers in the US, rather than to oil sheiks in the Middle East...

Make that corn farmers in Brazil, which is where much of our fuel grade ethanol is being imported from. Eventually the domestic infrastructure will be put into place to increase US ethanol production, but currently demand is outstripping supply and so we all take a hit at the pumps.

The DoE has put together a nice website that answers the questions raised in this thread: http://www.fueleconomy.gov/

[Tim Clark]

10% Ethanol is called "Super (or high test). Been around for years. It has nothing to do with MTBE which is very new. E-85 (85% Ethanol) is the new kid on the block. There's a big push to get (and detroit is responding) more E-85 and flexfuel capable vehicles on the road.

Ethanol is the fuel Henry Ford intended for his new fangled invention and today we are on the way to a full swing back to it. It can be made from any plant material that has starch or sugars in it. It also burns way cleaner and more completly than gas as it is 106 octane. You can produce it at home for around $1 (or so) less per gallon than gas depending on the cost of feed stock in your area.

I've built one still already (sold it) and plan to build more and will eventually distill ethanol for my own use. I even have my ATF production permit for it.

The "new" fuel I'm really interested in though is Hydrogen. It has way more possibilities than ethanl does.

Once industry gets it's collective head out of it's wallet, they will extract the carbon and hydrogen from oil, use the H2 for fuel and the carbon to build the cars, homes, industrial machines, etc. They they'll wander why they didn't do it sooner as they'll actually be making far more $$. Right now they can't see the forest cause all the trees are in the way.

After I finish off the various remodelling projects on my plate I'll be spending some time (& $) on both Ethanol & H2.

[parnelli]

For you folks where ethanol blends are sold - is gasoline without ethanol also available? My concern is will I still be able to get non-blended gasoline for use in my '64 VW (mechanical fuel pump, rubber diaphram in the accelerator pump).

In Illinois, Shell sold Amoco sold 100% gas at the premium level until about 5 years ago. Everyone else had already gone to a mix.

If anyone sells 100% gas, I haven't seen it in many years.

(As a sidebar to the conversation- I've also heard the view that when taking the oil derived fertilizers into account that the fuel savings from using ethanol are negligible. But I've never taken the time to see if that was true or not)

[Crash2510]

if everybody is so worried about lower octane ratings add a few mL of pure acetone to every ten gallons of gas and that should even things out

In fact my dad used to work for a gas company most companies since the 70s have blended gas

[maxparot]

Another thing to worry about is for those of us with cars that date back to leaded gas is the fact that the lack of lead causes valve recession. To overcome this and boost the octane rating you can purchase 100 octane low lead at your local airport. It is used for helocopters. Don't ask about the price though.