End of an Era

**Pappy** · 08-27-2012, 06:18 AM

I don't think anyone that votes would want to lose access to this longstanding, friendly community. I am one of the members guilty about procrastinating on making my donation to keep it going. Between long work hours creating limited 'puter time and ongoing personal problems I haven't been taking care of a lot of needed business. I will remedy that this evening!

I would also like to add my thanks to Sam for creating this place of refuge and Adele for putting up with the hours it took him away from his family. Hopefully Sam will stay in touch and post once in awhile to let us know how they are doing.

**radhak** · 08-27-2012, 07:43 AM

I'd definitely like to contribute to keep this site going. Can't imagine it vanishing into mere memories. Sam has done his bit (and more) and it's only right that we carry on from there.

I do want to offer a bit of my thoughts on what could make this a more thriving community. I feel we can afford to relax a bit on the restrictions we have placed upon ourselves. As a grownup I have a lot of opinion on the world even outside woodworking and would like to sound off on it, and hear others too. I believe I can do that without name-calling or being personally insulting; and if at times I forget myself I am fine being reined in by others.

Obviously I am referring to the taboo topics here - politics in particular. I'd say we could loosen up a little and allow such discussion so long as we don't descend to calling each other idiots or whatnot. I hope I can always call ______ an idiot without implying you, ____, are one for voting for him...or can't I

?

We could still keep profanity off, and anything that's personally directed...

Also, we could redesign the site a bit. The home page could be more like a newspaper or news-blog or something with latest news, product reviews, etc (all related to woodworking only, of course). I'm sure some of our members can prove to be very good reviewers if they can spare some free time.

And to keep it focused, I think more like AnandTech than like Woodmagazine or AmericanWoodworking (because the latter two are too labor intensive and commercial). I'd assume this might interest some advertisers too - without it becoming too irritating for us.

Just my two cents worth.

**tommyt654** · 08-27-2012, 08:09 AM

I too will follow suit,but the idea and I have been accused of it on occasion of allowin politics into the conversation here is a definite reason I prefer to come here as it is not allowed. There are plenty of other WW websites that allow off topic conversations. I'd prefer this not be 1 of them. I for 1 would take my biz elsewhere if it does turn into that climate as I have enjoyed toying occasionally with politics here,but realize its voodoo when brought into the conversation nowadays. Reason for this is not too long ago another WW website began allowing those types of conversations and it turned me off to the site. Rad I understand what your sayin but see no profitable reason for the site to begin such an endeavor and would vote against it if it were to come up for a vote. However ya'll can have another $10 if it will help

**radhak** · 08-27-2012, 08:50 AM

You make a good point Tommy - if the site turns into a free-for-all, the woodworking part will lose its charm, so we should still have moderation.

The reason I brought it up is that I really don't have time to go to multiple forums, and there are times something big happens in the world that I want to talk about, and I'd rather come here, have my say, hear others out, and look at the various stuff about WW that I also want to read about, and I'd be done. If I have to go to some other forum for 'off topic', I might not have time to also come over here, at least not that same day. I'm sure that applies for many of us, accounting for the reduced traffic, lesser conversations here.

**herb fellows** · 08-27-2012, 08:51 AM

It must be snowing in Hawaii, I find myself agreeing with Tommy for the second time this year:-)

Keep politics out. There are a million places on the net where you can vent, this shouldn't be one of them.
Whether intentional or not, politics can turn friends into enemies, or at least make them highly suspect.
My quota for enemies is about full, can't afford to add any more to the list.

Of course I'm in for $10, and many thanks to Sam and Adele for putting up with us over the years. Kind of like having children you love who need to be disciplined once in a while I suppose.

**pelligrini** · 08-27-2012, 09:11 AM

Of course I would donate!

What are the options being considered? I've got a couple forums hosed by Liquidweb. Our company's email and website is hosted by them too. They aren't the cheapest around, but I haven't had any problems with them at all. All the sites are pretty fast, support is outstanding.

Who will own the site and domain(s)?
Have we got a couple folks that know databases, php, and vBulletin?
It might be a good time to upgrade the forum software too.

**dbhost** · 08-27-2012, 09:36 AM

Originally posted by pelligrini

Of course I would donate!

What are the options being considered? I've got a couple forums hosed by Liquidweb. Our company's email and website is hosted by them too. They aren't the cheapest around, but I haven't had any problems with them at all. All the sites are pretty fast, support is outstanding.

Who will own the site and domain(s)?
Have we got a couple folks that know databases, php, and vBulletin?
It might be a good time to upgrade the forum software too.

I know the Linux, and Apache administration end of things, and have volunteered to handle that end. We could use some help with the MySQL and PHP... Anyone wish to volunteer?

**pelligrini** · 08-27-2012, 09:41 AM

I would volunteer, but I don't really know enough to be of help. (actually, I screw stuff up more than I fix it). That's one of the reasons a couple vB installs are so old, my upgrade attempts did not go well.

**Cochese** · 08-27-2012, 09:47 AM

The last few times I've reminded myself to donate, the site has been down, making me pause. I would be more inclined to if that was addressed. I would anyway, but it's a bit off-putting to me and it has to be to prospective new members. I have no clue about vBulletin, but I'm on the computer all the time for work anyway, I would volunteer to learn or do whatever I could to help.

I for one wouldn't care to see politics allowed. I think there's a bit too much off-topic already, but that's my opinion. Sometimes woodworking gets shifted to the back burner for nonsense.

**cwsmith** · 08-27-2012, 10:44 AM

Yes.

I need to figure out what I must do, but will address it before the day ends. $$ here are never great, but I'm ashamed of my lack of donations.

Regarding the ban issues, I too have been guilty on a couple of occasions and I admit some concern over the stringency of it at those times. I only participate in two woodworking/tool sites and "politics" can be sometimes fulfilling in getting something "off your chest".

BUT, it can quite frankly be frustrating and even angry as views collide. I would NOT want to see that happend here on the this forum. Even a slight change in tollerance, can then lead to who and where the line gets crossed. It is best not to go there, even in the slightest.

Respectfully,

CWS

**dbhost** · 08-27-2012, 11:16 AM

For what it's worth, as you probably know, I am on several other forums, I stay here, and consider this my home forum because, well honestly, the exclusion of discussion of religion and politics...

I have my own, very strong opinions on both subjects, and chances are if I voice them fully I will start something that would bring the tone of the forum down.

I totally understand Sam's reasoning behind the ban on religion and politics, and while some feel this ban is heavy handed, it is a common ban on woodworking forums for a reason. Those that do not ban those subjects spiral into worthless shouting matches with hurt feelings all around very fast.... With the political tone out there getting angrier and angrier by the day it seems, it is nice to have these forums to come back to as a refuge of civility...

Long winded way of saying, I am all for keeping the ban on religious / political subject matter.

**Black wallnut** · 08-27-2012, 11:16 AM

So far we have several members willing to help with the IT side of things, however we do not have someone that has a real strong background in MySQL, not sure about PHP. Frankly at this point sweeping changes to long standing forum polcies is not on the table. The site will be "owned" by the staff as will be necessary to satisfy legal requirements. But we are a community that is most self moderating and the community is bigger than the staff. Content and knowledgebase are jointly owned by the communtity at large. I should have mentioned that if you are willing to donate please wait for the announcement of the new fund drive.

As far as software, we have a vB license for vBulliten 4so a software upgrade is part of the deal. This is part of the reason we really need someone with MySQL skills. The source of the recent forum instability has been discovered and fixed.

**pelligrini** · 08-27-2012, 11:42 AM

Getting the articles from the old articles section into a even newer install might be difficult too. I think it was a custom add on for an earlier vB. Probably why we still need a link to the 'old articles section'.

I agree about the disallowed content, and discussion about it probably isn't needed at this time either.

**jking** · 08-27-2012, 11:48 AM

I'm glad to hear the ban no religion & politics is not open for discussion. I've been around when the line has been breached and it got ugly in a hurry. We've even had hurt feelings over woodworking discussions.

I'm also glad to hear the forum instability has been addressed. Like mentioned above, when I've remembered about donating recently, the forum has been down.

End of an Era

End of an Era

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