Plunge router - what is wrong?

[nicer20]

Hi Guys,

I have bought my first ever plunge router . (Bought the Bosch 1617evspk kit as my anniversary gift ). Still learning how to set it up & use.

As I have learned I insert router bit all the way in the collet and then pull it back about 1/4" to avoid it from bottoming out. When the router is in fully plunged position I am only getting 11/32" of usable bit exposure.

The router motor is fully inserted into the plunge housing.

(UPDATE: Yes the depth rod is free to move and the turret is set to allow the lowest plunge possible).

Is the router plunge base defective (unlikely)? Am I inserting the router bit too much into the collet? Or is this all normal?

Thought I will get advice from the pros here.

Thanks in advance,

Nicer

[LCHIEN]

First point, You don't appear to have a plunge-capable bit installed.
It does not have the center cutter needed to make a pure plunge cut hole. It will cut sideways but lacks the cutter required to be able to drop straight down and cut when say deepening a groove. See my discussion in the below link.

https://www.sawdustzone.org/forum/di...ge-router-bits

As for vertical "plunge" travel there will be a number of things that limit it.

1. If you have a short bit with short cutting length, then the insertion depth in the collet limits travel... when the collet hits the workpiece surface that's it. Sometimes you need to have less shank inserted and not all the way to the bottom, but that's a judgement call as to how much needs to be inserted. There are shank extenders for 1/4 and 1/2" shanks available.
2. On my 1617 with the plunge base, I think the travel is at least a couple of inches. There are a number of things that interfere... the opening in the baseplate and bushing holders can interfere with the collet. Then there are several "adjustable stops" for travel of the plunge assembly to preset depth of plunge including a multistep turret and a stop rod. And The router motor can be locked into position at a variable height.

[nicer20]

LCHIEN: Thanks for all the pointers - very helpful as usual. I am so glad that I have purchased the same router as you do. It vindicates my choice !!

I don't believe the adjustable stops (i.e. that stepped turret) is causing any issue. I have made sure the depth rod is free to move and the turret is set to allow maximum depth of plunge. You are right that there are stops on the body for coarse adjustment but they are mainly used in the fixed base. For the plunge base, I have inserted the router all the way down to allow maximum plunging depth. Also as you can see at least currently, I am not being held back by the baseplate opening or the bushing holders.

Next I will measure how much it travels. I am trying to find out if there is anything wrong with the kit since the return window will close soon - then it will have to be warranty hassles.

PS - BTW I now have three tools that are "Loring Certified" - the drill press, the router and of course the venerable BT3K

[LCHIEN]

I would not be hung up too much on fully inserting the shank into the collet. At one limit you want a little space so that the collet is held by the sides of the shank only and nothing pushing on the end or being in a bind when tightened.
At the other end I would make sure at least about 3/4" is inserted and set the bit protruding enough to be comfortable and convenient to use. I looked it up, most internet discussions say to insert an inch of shank into the collet chuck.

I am willing to bet I can make the end of the collet nut come out past the baseplate or surface of the workpiece. Meaning I can usually cut a deeper groove with the router bit than its cutting length if I need to (assuming the cutting diameter is larger than the shank).
As a general rule I only buy 1/2" shank router bits the shank being four times stronger. Some small bits I do buy 1/4" shanks (like solid carbide spiral bits, and some small grooving bits) where the lateral forces are not so great.

[LCHIEN]

Took two pics of the 1617 plunge base fully up and fully plunged to show you the travel.

Too lazy to install the router. But I'm pretty sure if the collet nut won't go all the way down, just pull the bit out of the collet some.





See there's enough room for a jar of peanut butter!

Take off the scuffplate and you can get another 3/16th of an inch depth.

[mpc]

Before seeing Loring's pics, I had taken a few pics of my 1617 router in its plunge base. Note that many router bits have a mark printed or etched into the shank area showing the minimum shank that must be gripped by the collet. Router owners manuals generally list a minimum amount of shank that must be inserted into the collet for proper grip. For the 1617, that is 5/8ths of an inch. Whichever measurement is larger is the critical one that must be obeyed when installing the bit. This pic is of a Freud bit and clearly shows the "<- MIN INSERTION" mark: That length is more than 5/8ths of an inch so it is "more critical" than Bosch's requirement.



So don't pull the bit out too far, trying to extend its reach. Notice the red color of this bit - Freud's typical coating color - see where the red blends into the shank portion? That blend is rounded - a fillet - to avoid a sharp 90 degree corner between the shank and bit body. A sharp corner tends to crack under stress/forces; a fillet improves the joint strength. That fillet must be outside the collet petals/fingers - the collet cannot get a grip on the fillet. That's why you see recommendations similar to "fully insert the bit, then pull it back out approximately 1/8th inch so the collet grips only the shank." That 1/8th inch makes sure the fillet is outside the collet for typical router bits though you may find larger fillets on big router bits. More than 1/8th of an inch is perfectly acceptable... up to that "MIN. INSERTION" line.

This pic is my 1617 with the plunge base fully extended - i.e. totally released - and a 1/4 inch diameter, 1 inch long, straight cutting bit installed to the Freud "MIN INSERTION" mark. The bit is about a half inch above where the workpiece would be.


With the plunge mechanism fully compressed, and the depth stop rod not limiting the plunge action, the collet moves to be just barely above the base plate:


Fully compressed view of the bit with the plunge fully compressed. Clearly too far and totally different than Nicer20's situation:


Notice in my pictures that the bevel on the motor housing, just below the plastic top part, is against the plunge base/clamp mechanism. In the above picture, you can see the bottom of the motor assembly - where the collet attaches - just pokes out below the plunge base. Looking at Nicer20's first picture, it appears his motor is fully inserted into the plunge base. So what is limiting his plunge depth? If the normal depth control rod is fully raised and the turret is on its lowest setting, what remains? Could the clear plastic dust shield or the dust hood accessory perhaps be interfering with something?

As Loring noted, you can buy collet extension gizmos. They are basically a shank on one end that inserts into the normal router collet and the other end is a second collet for your router bit. They are available in both 1/4 and 1/2 inch sizes. Example:

My personal preference is to not use these extensions unless absolutely necessary. First, they effectively extend the router motor shaft... magnifying any run-out present in the router motor and router collet. Next, the extension itself may not be perfectly round so it will add its own run-out to whatever the router contributes. And finally, you now have two collets to verify are properly tightened. These issues are pretty small though for quality routers, quality extensions, and quality router bits.

mpc

[LCHIEN]

All very good info and points made.

I agree about shaft extensions. I don't own one and would avoid it like the plague unless absolutely necessary.

[nicer20]

mpc, LCHIEN : Thank you both of you for a lot of insights.

Reporting problem solved !!

I think there was something stuck. Or I guess the brand new base needs to be "broken in" although I don't expect that from a tool of Bosch quality.

I pulled down the bellows and squirted some lube on both the columns. That eased the operation and now the router is plunging to full depth. At the bottom most position now the collet peeks through the sub-base like 1/32".

Thank you again for all the pointers & of course, for all the various general insights.

This is a lot of upgrade from my current fixed base, fixed speed Ryobi router - it is more power, electronic speed control w/ soft start, plunge base and also a 1/2" collet capability. Looking forward to put these features to use sometime soon.

Thanks once again,

Nicer

[LCHIEN]

Glad you resolved it. And thanks for letting us know. Feedback makes us more likely to help next time.

[nicer20]

Of course, you all have been always so helpful. Reporting back is the least I could do. Thank you for everything I have from you all, all these years!!

[LCHIEN]

If you need a table mount base for the 1617 I have one in excellent shape I no longer use. It really is just the standard fixed base with the wood knobs removed, and a T-handle allen wrench that can do the fine adjust from above the table. Bosch part number RA1165

https://www.amazon.com/Bosch-RA1165-...AKbUofQOi_wEld L1OGFpctZ191ru9CfROlXMKCzYFoviuU7JckF3LrhCWkxoC84Y QAvD_BwE&hvadid=558631635113&hvdev=c&hvlocphy=9027 759&hvnetw=g&hvqmt=b&hvrand=7245900717859432907&hv targid=kwd-1456794753026&hydadcr=8466_11337847&keywords=bosch +under-table+router+base&qid=1660112520&s=hi&sr=1-2





And maybe a woodPeckers phenolic router plate its attached to.
You can make your own table or you can buy one

[nicer20]

I am sending a PM to you on this !!

[LCHIEN]

One last suggestion for your old Ryobi router.
Mount it in the BT3 auxiliary/router table (may already be setup up for that router) and semi-permanently install a 45 degree chamfer bearing bit.
My reasoning:
a small chamfer gives a nice finished look to just about everything being easy to use (just raise the bit) makes it easy to do.
It doesn't need a fence if it has the bearing; the BT3x router fence is a bit of a hack to me - too fussy to setup and use
Don't really need to lock the Auxiliary/router table with the back clamp if you are not using the fence.
Frees up your main router table for other setups and uses.

Anyway, just a thought.

[leehljp]

This is a great idea! I personally prefer round over edges in general to chamfer, but that is just an individual and personal choice - and I usually have a router with a 1/8" round over bit in it at all times. Occasionally I will swap it out for a 3/16" round over and leave that in. This is where a second or third or more router on hand really comes in handy - keeping one on hand for an often used bit. As to the Chamfer, one size fits all - in the sense that it can be adjusted up/down to how much one wants to trim off of the sharp 90° edge, while the round over requires changing if one wants to change the radius of the edge. Thanks for noting an advantage of using the back up router in a common and often set up.

[nicer20]

That sounds like a good idea to mount and leave the router in there. The Ryobi router is bit clumsy to raise and lower with its ring style raising mechanism. But definitely a good idea to leave the bit in there as installing bits is also quite arduous. I have been using the roundover bits mainly but I must try the 45 deg chamfer bit - I have one.

Thanks for the idea.

[twistsol]

I always kept a flush trim bit with a bearing in the aux table of my BT3100. It made trimming edge banding fast and easy, knocking off the tongue from plywood when building tongue & groove cabinets as well as knocking down the passthroughs of dovetails for drawer boxes. It was the only router in the shop that never had a bit change during the entire cabinet build process.

[leehljp]

Gee, Thank Guys! ;-) I guess I am going to purchase two more routers, one to keep an edge band in at all times, and one to keep a chamfer in it at all times! This is how this forum costs me money!

[LCHIEN]

Hey Hank, you can change bits, you know, if you want. You don't have to buy a router for each bit!!! :-)

[LCHIEN]

nicer20

Have you checked your PM?