10 in Drum Sander Questions

[leehljp]

I do get some scoring, especially when the paper overlaps. I don't get fine finish like I expected. I think I'm running the last of my 180 paper and it looks like it was sanded with 80. It's easy to go ahead and finish out with a ROS but that's not what I bought this sander for.

I am not looking to use a drum sander as a fine thickness planer by any means, but I would like to see it make boards uniformly sanding smooth, which is my idea of what a DS should do/be. 180 looking like 80 - Am I expecting too much?

[capncarl]

I plane and joint all of my boards then finish them with the drum sander. This finish step is to remove the planer ripples. I wish the machine didn't have as many quirks. If it was a $200 purchase I'd probably shrug it off as getting what I paid for, but for $700 I expected a more refined machine. I'm not sure I would buy it again but would look for older cabinet shop drum sander.

[mpc]

capncarl - 180 grit sanding results looks like 80 grit? Wow, really poor - and very different from my experience with my 16-32. With 150 or 180 belts, the results from my sander are quite good. I still do a final hand-sanding once the parts are assembled to level joints, remove any fuzz, fingerprints, etc. before applying finish. But this is a quickie sanding instead of a "remove mill marks from the planer or other tools" level job. I'm really curious... actually dumbfounded... about your experiences. A drum sander isn't that complex a tool to design/manufacture! I can't imagine how one could perform so poorly as to leave mill marks! The only times my unit leaves grooves in the workpiece are a) sawdust or chips manage to get between the sanding strips and the belt (very rare, only happened when the tension wasn't tight enough on the belt) and b) when I get that resin build-up on the belt from taking a too-deep bite and thus generating a lot of heat. Usually that leaves a dark brown deposit on TOP of the workpiece rather than digging a trench.

I don't clean the sanding strip all that often either; as long as I remember to use the dust collector and don't take deep cuts the strips stay clean enough.

From a results point of view, the only issue I have with my drum sander is when trying pieces wider than 16 inches... and getting an obvious overlap area.

mpc

[capncarl]

I just did some googling to compare the 10-20 and 16-32 Jet. Right off I see the 16 has 1-1/2 hp vrs the 10 has 1 hp. The real difference I see is the 16's top opens to access the drum whereas the 10 opens on the infeed side. That's a lot of room to work loading paper on the 16, I really struggle getting my big hands in the 10's much smaller front opening at that angle in that small space. And being able to actually see what you were doing would be nice, with your hands and elbows in the way. This paper loading difference in machines probably could account for the problems I encounter with sandpaper.

Another potential problem I see with the 10/20, and may be the reason there is so much complaining about the belt tracking is the drive side of the conveyor drive roller does not seem to be supported by a bearing or bushing, rather it depends on the gear motor for its support. This ain't good. Fractional horsepower gear motors are not built to support much load on their output shaft. How long this tiny gear motor will last in this application considering how tight you have to get the conveyor belt to pull is anyone's guess. I believe that there is some slot in the gear motor mounting plate to allow the drive shaft to be squared up with the conveyor bed. If this adjustment is not perfect the belt won't track. These slots probably allows the manufacture to use various second party gear motors. The 16 seems to have a bearing or bushing support on the drive roller and a long coupling to the gear motor, thus reducing the load on the gear motors output bearing.
In my opinion these 3 differences make the 16-32 a better machine. When Jet built the 10-20 they didn't just make a smaller 16-32, they re-designed most everything on it, some features not so good. If I had know this it would have steered me away from the 10-20 toward the 16-32, if I had not been to eager to stock up on cheaper sandpaper for the 10-20. Hindsight is 20-20.

[poolhound]

capncarl - 180 grit sanding results looks like 80 grit? Wow, really poor - and very different from my experience with my 16-32. With 150 or 180 belts, the results from my sander are quite good.

This has been a very useful thread. Many times we put up with things because we believe that's 'how it is.' I am now wondering whether the track marks may be for reasons that can be avoided. I think some experimentation is in order. Here are some thoughts and comments to add to the equation...

• The primary usage has been to true up glue ups such table tops and especially end grain cutting boards. This is usually with very aggressive paper e.g. 80 grit.
• The track marks are fairly consistent across the width of the piece and therefore not anything to do with paper moving or getting overlapped. I am fairly sure it is due to either uneven or loose grit.
• The heavy weight papers I have are 80 and 120 and they came with the unit when I bought it used (~5 yrs ago) so the rolls (NOT used) are undoubtedly way older maybe 10 years but who knows. They could easily have loose grits.
• I have some rolls of finer (slightly) papers in 150 and 180 grit that came from Klingspor and cant recall results with these although they would always have been used after the heavy stuff so may have inherited marks from them.
• Never quite figured out the exact strategy for conveyor speed i.e. do you go faster to minimize contact time or slower to get deeper cut?
• I may sometimes take too deep a cut but typically just a quarter turn (1/64) when using rough paper.
• For max stock and glue removal they recommend 24 or 36 grit so maybe am over taxing unit trying to use 80.
• Although I always use with DC connected mine is the older Performax version and only has 2.5" port.I do adapt immediately to 4" but have wondered if I could somehow convert the cover to use a 4" direct connect.
• I may not always being religious enough to clean inside thoroughly between grits.

Possible test.

1. Start with 4 sample boards, dimensioned on planer to same thickness
2. Clean inside
3. start with 4 new strips of 80,120,150,180
4. Run 1 board through with each grit and compare result, cleaning inside between grits.

I could also run the one started at 80 up through all grits but if the 80 leaves marks the finer grits wont be taking them out. I have found with my end grain cutting boards that after truing the glue ups with the 80 grit I end up having to use my ROS starting at 60 to get the marks out.

Maybe I do need to invest in some rolls of 24 or 36 grit.

Any other thoughts on this issue or my testing? Hopefully will do this weekend and will post results.

[capncarl]

One thing that I noticed in my google searches that 2.5" ported performax units benefited greatly when updated to 4" dust collection. The drum run cooler and paper had less build up. Another thing I noted was comments about old sand paper failures.

[poolhound]

One thing that I noticed in my google searches that 2.5" ported performax units benefited greatly when updated to 4" dust collection. The drum run cooler and paper had less build up. Another thing I noted was comments about old sand paper failures.

Did they say what type of failures in the older paper?

[capncarl]

Problems with old paper...Paper being stiff and not forming to roll well, paper breaking at the spring clamp, grit coming off the paper, and for those with Velcro back the Velcro would come off the paper. Your older paper that sheds grit on a machine that has small dust port could be a reason for scoring. It seems that scoring is caused by large particles that is trapped in front of the drum on the wood and isn't vacuumed up and not pulled under the roller, it just scrapes the wood. Not something that is easily seen and you dang sure wouldn't want to stick a finger their to see if you could feel it. That would cause a scar. I've seen a wad of dust form in front of the roll and just stay there. If there was large grit in the dust it could be causing scoring. It's Kinda like the dust port should have been on the front of the machine rather than the back.

[leehljp]

Problems with old paper...Paper being stiff and not forming to roll well, paper breaking at the spring clamp, grit coming off the paper, and for those with Velcro back the Velcro would come off the paper.

I am kinda anxious to get a drum sander since I have come into some pine and oak, in addition that I have about 1000 board feet of odds and ends left over from my dad's work when he passed away in 1996.

Since 95% or more will be for 10 inch or less width, I had settled on getting a 10 inch. Then I looked at the Grizzly 12 inch Baby Drum Sander, here and thought it a good buy. I could get that in a couple of weeks when I am visiting my daughter, I thought. Then I saw the part about Velcro sandpaper and said NO. Forget that. My decision wasn't for the SP flaking off at temperature (I didn't know about that), BUT the idea of the "cushion" under sanding pressure seems like it could cause wrinkles somewhat like a nearly flat tire. The drum will be sanding under pressure, and with a space of 1 mm for velcro, that just seems like a recipe for potential problems. It might not be, but to me that is a concern. On ROS and other hand held sanders, velcro doesn't usually cause problems, but there have been a few times when I went to a sanding block for a FLAT sand. Hand sanders with velcro are not under the constant pressure as drum sanders are.

Currently, I am looking at the Grizzly 18/36, but it will be at least Labor Day before I can get that. I can't fit that in my car and will have to wait until I can pick it up another way. I just don't want to pay $99.00 shipping but Sales tax in MO will be about $50. Still, I would rather pick it up than have it shipped.

Your older paper that sheds grit on a machine that has small dust port could be a reason for scoring. It seems that scoring is caused by large particles that is trapped in front of the drum on the wood and isn't vacuumed up and not pulled under the roller, it just scrapes the wood. Not something that is easily seen and you dang sure wouldn't want to stick a finger their to see if you could feel it. That would cause a scar. I've seen a wad of dust form in front of the roll and just stay there. If there was large grit in the dust it could be causing scoring. It's Kinda like the dust port should have been on the front of the machine rather than the back.

The space is small but bunching up in front certainly seems plausible. An analogy: I wait until all of the tree leaves have all fallen (early DecemberO and then drive over them with the mower and make mulch out of them for the yard. I often get a big bunch in front and they will not feed under the deck until I back up and raise the deck to its highest point.

On my pens, I occasionally had white spots due to sanding dust building up on the very fine sandpaper until I added a Dust Collector system. There is more to it than that simple statement, but the DC system took away a factor for white spots and occasional scratches.

The Grizzly has a side port but it also has a built in fan. I will check this aspect out with other reviewers.

You fellows are really bringing up some good points!

[capncarl]

All posts have notable quotes, so mine is ..... The truth will set you free!
I hope that my experiences with the 10-20 Jet may have steered someone in the right direction.

[poolhound]

I didnt quite get the full test done but did get some glue ups through the sander with 80 grit. Here are some pics of before/after. its really hard to tell in this light maple especially in the before which is the one with the 2 boards stacked. You can see the planer tear out. the close up is after and you can see the marks running down the grain. I ran them through cross grain and it really shows up there. I didnt get a chance to run any higher grits and I did just order a roll of 36 grit to mill down some hard end grain oak board I just glued up. Not sure it will arrive before the weekend but will try it out as soon as I get it.

I did give it a good clean before I started and also blew some air through as it was sanding, I also found a few threads online from folks who had cut off/out the old 2.5" port and made up a 4" using some HVAC parts. I have them in hand so will add that to my shop todo list.

[leehljp]

I had a chance to compare the the 10 inch, the 12 inch and the 18/36 drum sanders side by side. The 12 inch looked good and would do well for me IMO. However my fears of too much play in hook&loop sandpaper seemed real. The roll was on fairly tight but I could press down on the SP at any point and there was "give" in it. Kinda turned me off from thinking about it. The 18/36 looked good, and I took measurements to see if I could fit it in my car. it wouldn't fit in the trunk because it is too high. I may come back this fall with my trailer and maybe get one then.

The 10 inch has a support bracket that prevents it from being used as a 10-20, but I did read a couple of references to a way to use it without the limiting bracket.

I didn't come away empty handed; got a chisel pocket roll and couple of other small things. Nothing big.

[poolhound]

I have never had the tracking on my Performax 16-32 working right so this weekend with 10 cutting boards to run through it I decided to give it another go. I had the whole conveyor apart and reassembled it lubing any mating parts. after a few attempts I finally got it to track just right, amazing. basically it is very picky on how you set it up and the margin for error is very small but I got there - Yay!