10 in Drum Sander Questions

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  • leehljp
    Just me
    • Dec 2002
    • 8429
    • Tunica, MS
    • BT3000/3100

    10 in Drum Sander Questions

    Been thinking about getting a Grizzly 10 inch Drum Sander ($415.00 plus MO tax). I was in Springfield a couple of weeks ago and thought long and hard about it. (And I will be there again in about 3 weeks.)


    Anyway, I read reviews, opinions and concerns. I thought - I probably should wait until I could afford a 18-36 at over $1000, Or Grizzly’s 18-36 for about $875. Most reviews and comments in most places focused on the small size and how inadequate that size would be. I let that thought convince me not to do it.


    Well, after getting the pine in the other link (here) and spending this morning taking nails and upholstery staples out of 3 oak church pews I have had on hand for a year, about 85 board feet, - I got to really thinking about the size of wood that I use 95% of the time - which happens to be 8 or 9 inch wide or less. The church pew wood (and I can get more) really would make reclaiming oak (or other) a huge plus. And the pine I got yesterday could really use a good surface sanding rather than putting them through a thickness planer to even out the natural wood color.

    BTW, the pews were in a church that was destroyed in a tornado 2 1/2 years ago. The ends were still intact but loosened; the seats got wet and while they dried out and were put in storage, the upholstery staples really rusted making some impossible to get out, popping off at the surface level. Impossible to get them out without digging into the wood. These shouldn't affect surface sanding.

    Does anyone here have a 10 inch drum sander? Does it cover the vast majority of your surface sanding needs?
    I don't want it to replace a thickness planer, but sand the surface for renewing the surface face, maybe remove dust and surface stains. Will it do this?


    Thanks
    Hank
    Last edited by leehljp; 05-22-2016, 12:55 PM.
    Hank Lee

    Experience is what you get when you don't get what you wanted!
  • capncarl
    Veteran Member
    • Jan 2007
    • 3564
    • Leesburg Georgia USA
    • SawStop CTS

    #2
    I have a 10-20 Jet drum sander that I purchased for making pine Tiny Tables. Unlike the grizzly it is open ended and will handle wider stock turned around. That said, I bought it for pine. The old heart Pine ruins sandpaper so fast that I could not finish a job without replacing the paper 2-3 times @$5 each! I don't use it on pine any more than I have to because the paper consumption is frustrating. On other woods it is fine but it is not a replacement for a thickness planer, it is for the final 1/16"
    For this kind of money I would consider a 3 blade dewalt 735x and only have to hand sand to finish.
    capncarl

    Comment

    • capncarl
      Veteran Member
      • Jan 2007
      • 3564
      • Leesburg Georgia USA
      • SawStop CTS

      #3
      Sorry, the staples went right over my head. Planer wouldn't work. Padded pews? yall got nice stuff!
      The drum sander may have 10" of sanding surface but I have found that the outsides tend to wear faster due to the paper loosening, causing you to use the center more. If you need 10" of sanding surface you better go for a wider drum.
      capncarl

      Comment

      • leehljp
        Just me
        • Dec 2002
        • 8429
        • Tunica, MS
        • BT3000/3100

        #4
        Thanks Capn. This kind of info is very helpful. AS to the staples, they are the smallest thinnest staples like 2 to 3 pieces of paper staples. I can't figure how their stapler got them to go so deep into wood.
        Hank Lee

        Experience is what you get when you don't get what you wanted!

        Comment

        • poolhound
          Veteran Member
          • Mar 2006
          • 3195
          • Phoenix, AZ
          • BT3100

          #5
          Hank,

          I have the 16-32, Performax version before this unit transitioned to Jet. If all you are doing is rough cleanup of reclaimed wood it would be fine to stay with 10". You might find yourself missing the open ended functionality pretty quickly. If you do any live edge slab work these are usually 12"+ though! I use mine for truing up glueups and quite often go wider than 16". I often do cutting boards that are >12" wide and they would not go through that 10" sander.

          If I had the space and the money I would have one of they 18-36 oscillating versions! Not sure if its just mine but I do find that no matter what I do I end up with track marks so although I do have finer sandpaper rolls for it I have never had any luck doing finish sandling with it. I always end up using my ROS to get the track marks out.
          Jon

          Phoenix AZ - It's a dry heat
          ________________________________

          We all make mistakes and I should know I've made enough of them
          techzibits.com

          Comment

          • leehljp
            Just me
            • Dec 2002
            • 8429
            • Tunica, MS
            • BT3000/3100

            #6
            Originally posted by poolhound
            Hank,

            I have the 16-32, Performax version before this unit transitioned to Jet. If all you are doing is rough cleanup of reclaimed wood it would be fine to stay with 10". You might find yourself missing the open ended functionality pretty quickly. If you do any live edge slab work these are usually 12"+ though! I use mine for truing up glueups and quite often go wider than 16". I often do cutting boards that are >12" wide and they would not go through that 10" sander.

            If I had the space and the money I would have one of they 18-36 oscillating versions! Not sure if its just mine but I do find that no matter what I do I end up with track marks so although I do have finer sandpaper rolls for it I have never had any luck doing finish sandling with it. I always end up using my ROS to get the track marks out.
            Track marks and "not final finish" sanding - I hadn't thought of those. But Glue Up truing, that is a huge plus. I most certainly could use that. I saw two posts a couple of weeks ago that mentioned modifications to make the Grizzly without the bracing, making it open ended. I need to check this out before going this route. The $875 Grizzly is now looking good, but saving that much money at once without LOML finding out is a little difficult. , when she gets wind of something like this, she likes to split the purchases.
            Hank Lee

            Experience is what you get when you don't get what you wanted!

            Comment

            • leehljp
              Just me
              • Dec 2002
              • 8429
              • Tunica, MS
              • BT3000/3100

              #7
              I have been looking at the 18/36 drum sander after reading reviews and CapnCarl's experiences as well as poolhound's. I downloaded the Grizzly 18/36 manual and just looked at the set-up procedure. THAT LOOKS LIKE A MAJOR PAIN. I have been reading other brands' reviews also. If there were one tool that could use a good engineering teams cooperative work in redesigning, it would be drum sanders.

              •• Sanding Rolls and clamping are a pain on most all;
              •• infeed, outfeed, guides table adjustments are problematic on most,
              • • Drum Alignment adjustments are fairly good, but a pain to get there
              •• Constant maintenance one way or another.
              •• Either table height or drum sander height adjustments.

              IF a Drum/tube shaped sandpaper could be used with the sander designed with a solid but quick release end plate for ease and speed of replacing. . .

              And I thought the BT3 SMT table had too many adjustment points!!
              Last edited by leehljp; 05-30-2016, 06:39 PM.
              Hank Lee

              Experience is what you get when you don't get what you wanted!

              Comment

              • capncarl
                Veteran Member
                • Jan 2007
                • 3564
                • Leesburg Georgia USA
                • SawStop CTS

                #8
                Do your research before buying a drum sander. Leehljp You are right, it looks like not much brain energy was spent designing and refining drum sanders. I was really disappointed with my 10-20 Jets capabilities. If you crank down just a smidgen too much it trips the overload. You really have to sneak up on your desired thickness, and if you have a number of pieces that you are trying to finish the same thickness and they all different thicknesses you have to do a lot of juggling to finally get them the same thickness before you can start serious sanding. I really expected more from this expensive machine. The conveyor belt tracking is really whimsical to say the least, and the belt is nearly $100 if you let it track off and destroy itself. The sanding drum and the conveyor have separate controls, and if you turn the conveyor speed down low enough it stops..... and for some reason you forget to turn it off when the job is finished the variable speed can overheat and self destruct, that will be another $165. I learned to unplug the power cord when I am finished with a job even if I am going to use it again that day. The sanding drum sandpaper fastner had to be the last thing that they though about the night before they started selling them. The nicest thing I can say for it is pitiful and I would be embarrassed to sell something this inadequate!
                I found out the hard way not to run old pine through the drum sander because in will clog and ruin the sandpaper quickly, at $5 a pop.
                Other than that it is a great machine, knowing it's capabilities I baby it along to get the job done.

                Comment

                • mpc
                  Senior Member
                  • Feb 2005
                  • 979
                  • Cypress, CA, USA.
                  • BT3000 orig 13amp model

                  #9
                  I have the Jet 16-32 which I purchased new during one of Jet's traveling circus/shows at my local Rocker - they typically have a 10% discount for the shows. Comments:
                  1: I'm glad I have it. It was a spur-of-the-moment splurge decision. I already had the Dewalt DW735 thickness planer so I didn't think I needed a drum sander too. Nope, it's really nice to use the 735 to get close to final stock thickness on tearout prone stock and then do the last bit of thicknessing with the sander. Takes a while... but I don't get tearout in fancy grain.

                  2: You must use dust collection with these things! A real mess without it and the owners manual flat-out states dust collection is required @400 to 600CFM minimum . Without dust collection you'll get a mess and the sanding belts don't last as long. I've forgotten to turn my DC on a time or two... doesn't take long before it's obvious that I need to turn it on.

                  3: my sander really does not like taking a very big bite. It has the automatic speed control (SandSmart or something like that) on the conveyor belt which slows the feed rate down when the sanding drum is working too hard. Reducing the bite depth until the SandSmart doesn't want to trigger - with the conveyor at full speed - seems to work the best. From there, I rotate the depth control about 1/8th of a turn between passes. That's about 1/128th of an inch. As capncarl noted, sanding pine or other resinous woods risks gumming the belt. Taking deeper bites generates a lot more heat which in turn creates more gunk. The sap/resins/whatever melts, binds to the belts, and then cools and hardens to something akin to ceramic. Once its on the belts it isn't coming off again. That portion of the belt is ruined. I've replaced far more belts from this mistake than belts that simply wore out.

                  4: assembly: mine wasn't difficult to assemble. The stand comes as a pile of parts as expected. The sander itself was almost completely assembled though; just sliding the conveyor assembly into position was the only real step. Have help though lifting the motor+drum sander assembly onto the stand though; it's heavy and hard to line up and the top of the stand is fairly narrow. I happened to be at a Woodcraft while one of the store employees was assembling a new 18-36 unit (the new gray ones) and it did slide off the stand. He caught it before it hit the ground - fortunately without hurting himself in the process. I saw it as it happened... once the assembly was complete the guys were joking about it - "almost needed to replace the sander!" "Almost needed to replace you!" I tossed back at them. "Yeah, reaching out to catch it probably wasn't the smartest thing I've done today..."

                  5: belt tracking: for my unit, the conveyor belt assembly tracking was nowhere near correct from the factory. Adjusting it wasn't too difficult but it takes a lot of time. The Jet unit has "captive" wrenches hanging from the threaded rod & nut assemblies on either side of the conveyor belt. Both need to be tight enough to provide tension in the belt... and then one is tightened even more to tune the tracking. Ever have a bolt or nut that was almost totally surrounded so you could only turn the wrench a fraction of a turn at a time? That's how these captive wrenches (basically box-end wrenches) work. About 1/6th of a turn at a time. Once adjusted though my unit has behaved itself. I've never had to re-do the tracking even after the unit rode in a moving van during my move.

                  6: drum to table alignment... this wasn't fun. Jet has a fairly simple looking alignment process. It starts with loosening the beefy bolts locking the "tower" portion of the unit to the base, then turning a star-shaped knob to raise/lower the motor end of the assembly. It's supposed to pivot about the two locking bolts close to the belt (there are a total of 4 bolts) and then you tighten the 4 bolts to lock it. Mine seems to shift as the bolts are tightened. And the shift isn't constant so I haven't been able to intentionally miss the alignment and have it "pull in" as I tighten the bolts. For the vast majority of sanding this is immaterial - my unit is plenty close. When working a really wide panel though - making two passes of a piece wider than 16 inches to cover the whole thing - any drum to table misalignment leaves a shallow "v" or raised "^" down the middle of the panel. I've been told I need to purposely miss-align my unit to compensate. I have noticed though I can push on the whole drum assembly and raise/lower the cantilevered with just a few pounds of hand force. Thus I imagine the drum-to-table angle (which is supposed to be zero ==> parallel) can vary a fraction of a degree just from the forces applied by the hold-down rollers and the sanding drum itself while working a wider board. Taking a deeper cut means there is more force on the workpiece so I imagine my unit might be flexing a little out-of-parallel in those conditions. Another reason to take smaller bites. I always flip the boards around between passes to make sure I don't end up building up a shallow tapering. Long ago (two or three software revisions of this forum ago) somebody mentioned adding a support to their Ryobi drum sander, basically closing the cantilevered end of the drum. Made a world of difference. Of course that changes a "16-32" sander into a "16-16" sander but it probably would improve overall performance.

                  7: sand paper installation. Boy, this really could be easier! The Jet unit has a finger-operated lever on the "outside" (cantilevered) end of the drum to start the paper loading, then a spring loaded gizmo that pulls on the other end of the sand paper strip on the end of the drum next to the motor... where you can't get your hands in to reach anything or for that matter even see much of anything. Jet has a bent-metal rod called a TUFTool that reaches in and hooks the lever; it also holds the last few inches of the sand paper strip to the drum as you hand-feed the tip into the small (and blind) opening. Then you twist and release the TUFTool to let the tensioner hopefully grab the sanding strip tip and pull it snug. I wish Jet had simply reversed these - put the tensioner on the cantilevered end of the drum where you can at least SEE what you are doing! Sand paper strips come in rolls... and like anything that's been rolled up for a while the strips want to stay in rolled-up shapes. The tip going into the tensioner needs to be STRAIGHT to be guided through a rather narrow opening (that you can't see!) to actually enter the tensioner. ARG! ARG! ARG! By the way, the stock Jet strips are rolled up OPPOSITE direction to how you need to install them. I.e. the tip at the inside of the roll is what you need to start with - that's what goes into the finger-operated lever first, then you roll the drum to wind the strip until you reach the tensioner end.

                  So I did struggle a bit to get my sanding working well... for anything under 16 inches width it really works well. And quickly. I don't have much issue with "mill marks" or other lines left in the workpiece either - I only do a minor hand-sanding pass prior to finishing. I try to feed the workpieces through at a bit of a skew angle, varying the angle between passes, which randomizes the sanding a bit.

                  All-in-all, I'd recommend some sort of drum sander to anybody that does a fair bit of woodworking. Mine is a time saver overall. Long ago I debated "drum sander" or "thickness planer" - which do I need or do I need both? I was really in the "thickness planer only" camp, especially since the DW735 cuts cleanly and leaves a near-finished surface itself. But having the drum sander for final passes, or handling figured wood that tears out in the 735, has proven its worth to me. Using only a drum sander to get rough lumber to a particular thickness probably is not the way to go though. Unlike knives, sandpaper doesn't always "cut" to the exact same depth... so if you fed 5 slightly differing thickness board through a drum sander you probably won't get 5 identically thick boards at the end. A few extra passes of the boards - with the sander taking the barest hint of a cut - gets them pretty close to identical. But it's much slower to thickness stock in a drum sander compared to a real thickness planer. I'd suggest saving up for a larger/wider unit if possible though - ideally at least as wide as your thickness planer so they can work together. I've seen other posts on the smaller units suggesting they give up additional features - besides pure size - compared to their big brothers. Features like variable speeds, or automatic conveyor speed control, etc And I'd suggest buying a planer before a drum sander for folks that don't have either one. A decent random orbit sander will do just about everything a drum sander can do... just takes a bit longer.

                  mpc

                  Comment

                  • mpc
                    Senior Member
                    • Feb 2005
                    • 979
                    • Cypress, CA, USA.
                    • BT3000 orig 13amp model

                    #10
                    capncarl - what features does unit your unit have? It sounds a lot worse than mine since we both have Jet units. I'm guessing yours is one that doesn't have the automatic conveyor belt speed? Mine slows down if I ask it to take a too-deep "cut" (what do you call it when sanding?!?) but I've never had it pop a circuit breaker or shut itself off. Earlier today I happened to Kill-a-watt several machines in my shop. My Jet takes 10 amps just spinning with no workpiece inserted; when I ran a hard maple block through it with the cut depth intentionally set about twice what it should have been (the SandSmart light was on solid and the belt speed was reduced to almost nothing) the amperage draw jumped to 18 to 20 amps! For normal passes on that hard maple the draw was more reasonable at 13 to 16 amps. I guess the "SandSmart" feature really is worthwhile then... beats having the unit shut off when asked to do a tad too much. Sounds like a 5 year old kid throwing a tantrum when asked to simply take out the garbage!

                    mpc

                    p.s. The Jet 16-32 drum sander "wins" as the biggest amp consumer in my shop, beating the BT3000 (idling or cutting that same hard maple block), my 14 inch bandsaw idling or cutting, and the DW735 planer which came in a close second to the sander. The dust collector (a 1.5HP Delta unit) gobbled only half as many amps as the big tools which surprised me; I expected it to be a bigger power pig. So the Jet 16-32 and larger units may not be a good fit for folks without a good 20 amp circuit in their shop.
                    Last edited by mpc; 05-31-2016, 03:11 PM.

                    Comment

                    • capncarl
                      Veteran Member
                      • Jan 2007
                      • 3564
                      • Leesburg Georgia USA
                      • SawStop CTS

                      #11
                      I would not have thought that the drum sander used that much amperage! My Jet 10-20 does not have the sand smart feature. I didn't know it was an option when I bought it. When I purchased the 10-20 I needed a sander capable of handling 10-12 inches and was leaning toward a Jet. During a trip to Woodcraft in Atl. on their last day open before moving to a new location I happened on a 50% off price on Jet 10-20 sandpaper (the only size they had left) I decided then to get a 10-20 and purchased their remaining stock of paper for about $125. Looking back at how much I have used my 10-20 I will have to admit it has been a good investment and has greatly reduced my sanding time on my Tiny Tables...... But I stand by my statements that it is woefully lacking in factory research and development. It has lots of issues that should have never left the factory.

                      Comment

                      • poolhound
                        Veteran Member
                        • Mar 2006
                        • 3195
                        • Phoenix, AZ
                        • BT3100

                        #12
                        Originally posted by mpc

                        5: belt tracking: for my unit, the conveyor belt assembly tracking was nowhere near correct from the factory. Adjusting it wasn't too difficult but it takes a lot of time. The Jet unit has "captive" wrenches hanging from the threaded rod & nut assemblies on either side of the conveyor belt. Both need to be tight enough to provide tension in the belt... and then one is tightened even more to tune the tracking. Ever have a bolt or nut that was almost totally surrounded so you could only turn the wrench a fraction of a turn at a time? That's how these captive wrenches (basically box-end wrenches) work. About 1/6th of a turn at a time. Once adjusted though my unit has behaved itself. I've never had to re-do the tracking even after the unit rode in a moving van during my move.

                        ...

                        7: sand paper installation. Boy, this really could be easier! The Jet unit has a finger-operated lever on the "outside" (cantilevered) end of the drum to start the paper loading, then a spring loaded gizmo that pulls on the other end of the sand paper strip on the end of the drum next to the motor... where you can't get your hands in to reach anything or for that matter even see much of anything. Jet has a bent-metal rod called a TUFTool that reaches in and hooks the lever; it also holds the last few inches of the sand paper strip to the drum as you hand-feed the tip into the small (and blind) opening. Then you twist and release the TUFTool to let the tensioner hopefully grab the sanding strip tip and pull it snug. I wish Jet had simply reversed these - put the tensioner on the cantilevered end of the drum where you can at least SEE what you are doing! Sand paper strips come in rolls... and like anything that's been rolled up for a while the strips want to stay in rolled-up shapes. The tip going into the tensioner needs to be STRAIGHT to be guided through a rather narrow opening (that you can't see!) to actually enter the tensioner. ARG! ARG! ARG! By the way, the stock Jet strips are rolled up OPPOSITE direction to how you need to install them. I.e. the tip at the inside of the roll is what you need to start with - that's what goes into the finger-operated lever first, then you roll the drum to wind the strip until you reach the tensioner end.

                        I have never managed to get the tracking on mine right, the adjusters just wont take it far enough so its always creeping on one direction. After an email to Jet they suggest taking the table apart and starting over but I havent got around to that. I did replace the belt and they can be pricy if you get the offical jet one but I found an off brand that was only approx $20!

                        I know a lot of folks complain about the paper installation but I dont find this to be an issue, takes about 30 seconds. Not that much longer than my palm sander :-) I do have some of the pre cut pieces that jet sells but also have some long rolls and use a template to cut the ends.
                        Jon

                        Phoenix AZ - It's a dry heat
                        ________________________________

                        We all make mistakes and I should know I've made enough of them
                        techzibits.com

                        Comment

                        • capncarl
                          Veteran Member
                          • Jan 2007
                          • 3564
                          • Leesburg Georgia USA
                          • SawStop CTS

                          #13
                          Poolhound, my 10-20 jet paper tensioner isn't that hard to operate, I unplug the machine and drag up a chair facing the linfeed and start threading paper on. My complaint is that it doesn't hold the paper very well. It is a self tightening clothes pin design that is suppose to bite down on the paper and pull any slack out. As it operates It seems to loose a little grip and the paper gets a little loose on the roll. After a while the loose paper will overlap a tad at its edges and make a mess out of your wood. I've learned that the loose paper makes a different noise and shut the sander down and retesion the paper and put several tight wraps of 1/2" wide reinforced packaging tape around the drum and sandpaper at the tensioner end. That knocks out using the last inch or so of drum for sanding but it saves the paper from self destructing and destroying my wood and usually lets me run it until the paper is worn out. Engineering at it finest!

                          Comment

                          • poolhound
                            Veteran Member
                            • Mar 2006
                            • 3195
                            • Phoenix, AZ
                            • BT3100

                            #14
                            Originally posted by capncarl
                            Poolhound, my 10-20 jet paper tensioner isn't that hard to operate, I unplug the machine and drag up a chair facing the linfeed and start threading paper on. My complaint is that it doesn't hold the paper very well. It is a self tightening clothes pin design that is suppose to bite down on the paper and pull any slack out. As it operates It seems to loose a little grip and the paper gets a little loose on the roll. After a while the loose paper will overlap a tad at its edges and make a mess out of your wood. I've learned that the loose paper makes a different noise and shut the sander down and retesion the paper and put several tight wraps of 1/2" wide reinforced packaging tape around the drum and sandpaper at the tensioner end. That knocks out using the last inch or so of drum for sanding but it saves the paper from self destructing and destroying my wood and usually lets me run it until the paper is worn out. Engineering at it finest!
                            I would have thought the design was the same on the 10-20 but I dont see that issue on mine. My biggest problem is with scoring. I have tried various feed speeds and depths of cut but nothing seems to help. Do you get this or do you find that stock comes out clean?
                            Jon

                            Phoenix AZ - It's a dry heat
                            ________________________________

                            We all make mistakes and I should know I've made enough of them
                            techzibits.com

                            Comment

                            • capncarl
                              Veteran Member
                              • Jan 2007
                              • 3564
                              • Leesburg Georgia USA
                              • SawStop CTS

                              #15
                              I do get some scoring, especially when the paper overlaps. I don't get fine finish like I expected. I think I'm running the last of my 180 paper and it looks like it was sanded with 80. It's easy to go ahead and finish out with a ROS but that's not what I bought this sander for.

                              Comment

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