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I reject your reality and substitute my own. -
almost seems a shame how fast we can denude the forest and destroy trees,
Yet so darn efficient and amazing to watch. Even stacks the logs of different diameters.
I'm so conflicted.
Loring in Katy, TX USA
If your only tool is a hammer, you tend to treat all problems as if they were nails.
BT3 FAQ - https://www.sawdustzone.org/forum/di...sked-questions -
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I suppose that this machine has much less impact on the Forrest than the conventional logging meathods where they bring in skidders and totally wreck the Forrest so it erodes into galleys in a few years. Logging is such a dangerous profession I'm surprised that it hasn't been outlawed by the do-gooders. This machines probably makes it a lot safer. I can't imagine this complex of a piece of equipment functioning long in this environment though.
capncarlComment
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Like some alien machine pent on denuding the planet as quickly and efficiently as possible. This operator seemed to be pretty selective though, but can you imagine how quickly we humans can clear a massive forest with just a few of these machines... and we wouldn't have to gainfully employ an army of locals to do it either!
Impressive, but I'm not sure how much I like it,
CWSThink it Through Before You Do!Comment
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I counted ~19 logs cut (not counting the "poles") in the 6 minutes. Very close to 5 logs/minute. Hopefully this is from "renewable" forest.Bill in Buena ParkComment
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I wonder why they cut the smaller diameter trees. The ones look like they're under 6". What can they be used for to warrant the time and expense to mill them. Or was it just to get them out of the way to reach the others.I reject your reality and substitute my own.Comment
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Like some alien machine pent on denuding the planet as quickly and efficiently as possible. This operator seemed to be pretty selective though, but can you imagine how quickly we humans can clear a massive forest with just a few of these machines... and we wouldn't have to gainfully employ an army of locals to do it either!Capn, you got that right.
Impressive, but I'm not sure how much I like it,
CWS
CWS, you give a balanced view with insights on many things. Others share your concern here. I like your guarded reservations on this. However, let me set this machine into context. The "context" makes it palpable - to an extent.*
Context: Look at the video again. Notice anything about the trees? - Spacing of the trees, fairly symmetrical, not natural in nature. All trees the same. Man made.- Probably all Pine (or maybe a fast growing fur/cedar)! It's a FARM. It is "production" the same as soybeans, cotton, corn, etc, but spread over a 20 year or longer if planned harvesting is adhered to. Largest trees cut which amounts to 20% or 25 % of the area, re-plant, every 4 to 5 years, harvest 20 or 25% again. Sustained growth. .
That machine makes it easy and safer.
There is a second crop that comes yearly with pine trees: Pine straw!
My brother in law's wife's dad owns some good Georgia farm land but he is retired. He leases most of his land out to other larger farmers. However, he planted 30 - 40 acres in pine about 10 years ago. He just wanted to let it set and let the trees grow. (I thought he was a little crazy to do that, at the time.) Well, some enterprising legal farm workers from Mexico came around 2010 and tried to talk him into letting them harvest the pine straw. He said "No". Then again in 2011. Still "No". Then in 2012, they talked him into it. He gets about $2000+ a year from this migrant worker and his family. They come in, go row by row and collect the pine straw, bundle it and sell it to nurseries, local HD or Lowes like retailers. So, my BIL's FIL gets a small residual bonus every year now.
Down south, it is common to see old farm land being reclaimed by planting trees - specifically pine trees with a 10 to 20 year harvesting process. There are several reasons for this:
With regulations on farms and grain/cotton production, necessity of rotating crops, escalating machinery cost (one cotton picker can cost half a million dollars these days) and market fluctuations, many many many farmers and land owners began re-forrestation (terrible adjective) in the '80s. I "think" pine plantations got their own tax break or consideration.
* "to an extent."
I used to be totally upset with all the pine tree re-forrestation until I understood that for the most part, it was normal farm / ranch land that was being used in production. I thought that re-forrestation should be a balance of different kinds of hardwoods, and still do. But this is a case of farm land being used with a different crop, which, by being a substitute, does slow down the cutting of hardwoods. In the past 10 years, there have been government incentives to re-forrest long term with mixed hardwoods and I am seeing it happen. However, these re-forrestation of hardwoods similar to the original forests - is a 40-50 year minimum commitment . . . if controlled production management is the plan. Leave it for the next generation. At that time, a good hardwood tree will probably be worth the equivalent of upwards of $10,000 in today's value.Last edited by leehljp; 10-10-2015, 02:54 PM.Hank Lee
Experience is what you get when you don't get what you wanted!
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I wonder why they cut the smaller diameter trees. The ones look like they're under 6". What can they be used for to warrant the time and expense to mill them. Or was it just to get them out of the way to reach the others.
Small trees that need to be cleared out can used for pulpwood - paper of all types, and for posts. Small tree harvesting are part of the plan. Seedlings are planted a little too close together for "good"long term production, but it takes advantage of the "time" during which the trees are smaller and don't need the space of a mature tree.
It allows for some production at about the 10 year mark, and the thinning then give the other trees more space to mature. Efficient use of space and seedlings.Hank Lee
Experience is what you get when you don't get what you wanted!Comment
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Fear not, this machine will not denude the forrests of the south, or anywhere else for that matter. A uneducated guess, paper company owned pine forrests in Georgia alone exceed 50 million acres. Seldom have I seen the trees that they harvest larger that these in the video. These trees are destined for paper mills that convert them to toilet paper, paper towels, diapers and brown corrugated boxes. Larger trees usually come from privately owned forrests and other large saw mill companies that allow the trees to get more age. Trees for telephone poles are from forrests grown for that purpose, and thinned several times to encourage the tall trees. It's really big business. They have a good handle on which acres to cut and which to leave growing and are very well managed. This is a sizable percentage of land in the state, but I understand that in the early 1900s the only acreage in the state that was not under cultivation for row crops ,(cotton, corn or soybeans) was flood plains that could not be plowed. The great depression and economic failure of these farms is where the paper companies got all their average. The rich get richer.
capncarlComment
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Thanks Hank,
While my first thought wasn't in terms of a "Farm", I did notice that the trees that were taken in the video were smaller and that the entire area was pretty young growth in a relatively flat area and most likely in the south... so a "farm" probably should have come to mind. I have no problem whatsoever with "farming".
I do have a problem with gainful employment though, but then there is the safety factor that should be a consideration.
Real problem with machinery like this is that it makes it all too easy, and while that works well for farm production, in the hands of less eco-minded people, it can be devastating.
You see, I llve up here in New York, and everywhere I look (even here in the city) there are trees. Trees cover all the hills, and we have fairly vast tracts of forests, laced with roads, and good living spaces. Places that I roamed when I was kid are still pretty much the same as back then. Maple, birch, oak, and a variety of others. We don't have "harvesting" on any large scale, except there is a growing number who are pushing for it, and in the one or two areas where that has happened, it was pretty ugly. Fortunately, those two instances were very small in scale and were ugly enough to put a stop to it. The economics of those incidences also played a big part of bringing things to a halt... it was just too labor intensive and expensive. BUT, a machine like this could be a major game change!
At the turn of the past Century (late 1800's to early 1900's) our hills and valleys didn't look the way they do now. And in the early 1800's it was worse. Way back then, the railroads scalped the forests almost 20 miles on either side of the rails. Old photographs show barren hills, with all the wood used for engine fuel and structures. Later in the Century the wood went to building and fuel for factories and again the hills and valleys lost much of their forests. Today almost everything we see here is third generation growth.
It will probably never again be as devastating as the past, but such machines and the politics of greed (like we've seen with the gas fracking industry) could change that. Hence my "Impressive, but I'm not sure how much I like it." comment. But nonetheless I do support responsible farming and sustainability in the forest industry.
CWSThink it Through Before You Do!Comment
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I don't particularly like the large timber companies but from my observations they are better stewards of the land than some private land owners. There are some realestate pirates similar to the corporate raiders that buy failing companies to pilfer their retirement savings. These pirates buy old farmland and plantations that have decent tree growth, cut all the timber, usually worth more than they paid for the entire property, then sell the property for almost as much as they paid. Free enterprise? Yes, legal? Yes, but I wouldn't mind seeing a video of the tree machine grabbing one of the Pirates by the leg.
capncarlComment
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I didn't read all of the responses but the smaller diameter wood is usually chipped and used for paper, etc. Those machines only work up to a certain diameter tree before they can't clamp on, cut and stabilize them.Comment
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