PC Trim router - stuck router bit

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  • radhak
    Veteran Member
    • Apr 2006
    • 3058
    • Miramar, FL
    • Right Tilt 3HP Unisaw

    PC Trim router - stuck router bit

    Okay, you may laugh at me, but I got a real problem.

    I have a nice PC Trim router, the 3092, from Craigslist a while ago. It came with a trim bit (with a roller bearing at the top) that I never took off, and worked pretty well. But now that I want to change the bit, I find it's stuck in the collet.

    It has a 11/16" lock-collar, and the collet itself takes a 1/2" wrench, but try as I might, I'm unable to shake it free.

    Is there a special technique I'm missing? Do I heat the collet/collar up? I've desisted knocking on it for fear of damaging it, but I'm perplexed now.
    (Sudden horrified thought - have I been tightening instead of loosening it? How'd I know?)

    I can also see signs of some stripping around the collet - maybe from my efforts, or maybe from before. I hope to not make it worse.
    It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.
    - Aristotle
  • atgcpaul
    Veteran Member
    • Aug 2003
    • 4055
    • Maryland
    • Grizzly 1023SLX

    #2
    Are you able to loosen the collar and the bit is just stuck? And you've squirted some penetrating oil in there? If the collar is loose and the bit is stuck, I'd be inclined to *tap* on the bit with a hammer, immobilize the spindle with the appropriate wrench or spindle lock button, then get some channel locks on the bit and try to twist it out.

    Comment

    • LCHIEN
      Internet Fact Checker
      • Dec 2002
      • 20914
      • Katy, TX, USA.
      • BT3000 vintage 1999

      #3
      yes, are you able to turn the lock collar any?
      They are tightly coupled and nothing in between the collet and the locking nut will break.
      Qauirt some penetrating oil into ti. Wait a day, then Use cheater bars or long wrenches.

      Try putting the locking nut in the big bench vise and a long handled wrench with a cheater bar in necessary on the collet part. ABout the only thing that can break is the nut... or the rust holding it on.

      If the nut is loose but the bit isn't coming off then that's a different problem.

      BTW, All routers turn the same direction that I've ever heard of. Therefore router collet nuts are ALL right handed (normal) they follow the right hand rule.
      Last edited by LCHIEN; 01-02-2015, 11:02 AM.
      Loring in Katy, TX USA
      If your only tool is a hammer, you tend to treat all problems as if they were nails.
      BT3 FAQ - https://www.sawdustzone.org/forum/di...sked-questions

      Comment

      • radhak
        Veteran Member
        • Apr 2006
        • 3058
        • Miramar, FL
        • Right Tilt 3HP Unisaw

        #4
        I have sprayed WD-40 all over and soaked.

        I'm unable to loosen the collar itself. Maybe just a matter of a stronger pair of arms for the two wrenches (as in, the auto-shop)?
        It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.
        - Aristotle

        Comment

        • LCHIEN
          Internet Fact Checker
          • Dec 2002
          • 20914
          • Katy, TX, USA.
          • BT3000 vintage 1999

          #5
          Originally posted by radhak
          I have sprayed WD-40 all over and soaked.

          I'm unable to loosen the collar itself. Maybe just a matter of a stronger pair of arms for the two wrenches (as in, the auto-shop)?
          I don't think WD-40 is a penetrating oil... there are specialty penetrating oils for that purpose.

          Like I said, stick the nut in your bench vise (router vertical) and use a long wrench and cheater on the collet. Should be lots of room I would think. Even a large Crescent-type adjustable wrench. Be carefull all the router weight will be on the collet, keep it vertical to avoid bending the collet!
          Last edited by LCHIEN; 01-02-2015, 11:08 AM.
          Loring in Katy, TX USA
          If your only tool is a hammer, you tend to treat all problems as if they were nails.
          BT3 FAQ - https://www.sawdustzone.org/forum/di...sked-questions

          Comment

          • atgcpaul
            Veteran Member
            • Aug 2003
            • 4055
            • Maryland
            • Grizzly 1023SLX

            #6
            I've done a variation of what Loring is describing without the vise but the vise is definitely a good suggestion. If you can get the base off, do that first. Slip the spindle wrench on, then lay the router on its side with the wrench pressed on the bench. Then slip the collar wrench on and try to press down while holding the body of the router steady. I haven't been as stuck as you describe but this works for me if I can't manage to squeeze the two wrenches together.



            I think I used that spiral bit to route out a circular white oak table top.

            Comment

            • durango dude
              Senior Member
              • Mar 2011
              • 934
              • a thousand or so feet above insanity
              • 50s vintage Craftsman Contractor Saw

              #7
              I'm going to guess the bit was seated all the way in the router before you bought it.

              Not a lot of ideas on how to release it (I used vice grips - which ruined my bit - but that's better than ruining your router using a hammer) ---- but I will tell you - there's two good measures you can take to prevent sticks:

              a) Place a small O ring inside the collet --- this prevents you from fully seating the bit ---- but it has a little play to allow a self-releasing collet to work.

              b) Go to a gun supply shop and get a soft 30 cal wire brush. Clean your collet out with it with a thin solvent of your choice (I use Hoppes - but almost anything works ---- just make sure you dry it out when you're done - you don't want oil on your woodwork).

              Comment

              • radhak
                Veteran Member
                • Apr 2006
                • 3058
                • Miramar, FL
                • Right Tilt 3HP Unisaw

                #8
                Loring, the WD40 can claims it penetrates, but who knows!

                Those are all good suggestions, thanks y'all! I should be able to use my bench vise, and maybe longer wrenches. And yeah, at this stage the bit is least of my worries, so long as I can get my router back to work!

                (Paul, that pic is so funny - that could be my bench right now, with my attempts to get this thing out )

                But first, I think I've hit upon another issue. Upon close inspection, looks like the neck of the collet - where the wrench should fit - has a tiny lip on the upper part. My wrench - though not the fattest, is fat enough that this lip is obstructing it from fitting snugly around the neck.

                I think I need a thinner 1/2" wrench first, to correctly grip the collet.

                Wonder if HF has some such.
                It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.
                - Aristotle

                Comment

                • cwsmith
                  Veteran Member
                  • Dec 2005
                  • 2737
                  • NY Southern Tier, USA.
                  • BT3100-1

                  #9
                  WD-40 is a penetrant, but perhaps not the best, I've found PB Blaster to work qucker.

                  I don't have any P-C routers, but could it possibly have a release-type collet? My Ridgid 2900 (the full-size router) has a collet that when loosened doesn't fully release the bit... you have to turn it past the initial point of loosening in order for it to actually release the bit. I understand that the Ridgid router has a collet similar to that of the P-C)

                  In other words, you wrench loose the collet nut... and it will be so loose that you can turn it with your fingers a bit. But at the point the bit is still locked in. So you have to continue to loosen it... continuing to turn it, it will actually feel tight again, and then it will break loose and the bit can be extracted with ease. Just loosening to the first stage, can be frustrating, thinking that the bit is stuck forever!

                  (I remember reading on the Ridgid forum that a poster got so frustrated he actually tossed the router... he never tried to fully loosen the collet past that initial stage.)

                  CWS
                  Think it Through Before You Do!

                  Comment

                  • vaking
                    Veteran Member
                    • Apr 2005
                    • 1428
                    • Montclair, NJ, USA.
                    • Ryobi BT3100-1

                    #10
                    My Hitachi router originally had defective collet. I had a bit stuck in it that I could not remove. Hitachi told me to bring it to authorized repair place and let professionals remove the bit. Hitachi also sent replacement collet to the same place. Apparently that issue was common and Hitachi recalled that collet. Athough in my case I was able to losen the nut, I just could not get the bit out.
                    Alex V

                    Comment

                    • Bill in Buena Park
                      Veteran Member
                      • Nov 2007
                      • 1865
                      • Buena Park, CA
                      • CM 21829

                      #11
                      Rad,
                      Skimming through the thread of this post, I may have missed the guidance on direction to loosen - so my apologies if already added.

                      When looking at the router bottom (bit up), all my routers require counter-clockwise rotation of the collet nut to loosen. So if you need an arbor wrench to immobilize the arbor, and if the arbor wrench is stationary, the collet wrench should be rotated counter-clockwise to loosen.

                      As mentioned by CWS, I have a router that has a secondary point in loosening where I have to wrench past it to fully free the bit, so you may want to watch for this when you initially get your collet nut to break free.

                      (Edit: just saw Loring's comment on "right hand rule" - so that covers it.)
                      Last edited by Bill in Buena Park; 01-02-2015, 01:58 PM.
                      Bill in Buena Park

                      Comment

                      • capncarl
                        Veteran Member
                        • Jan 2007
                        • 3564
                        • Leesburg Georgia USA
                        • SawStop CTS

                        #12
                        Have you tried gripping the bit with vice grips or chucked up in the wood vice and tried to loosen the nut? Forget about gripping the shaft. If the bit slips and the nut does not break free you may be able eventually twist it enough to get the bit out. With the bit out the pressure on the collet should be relieved and you may be able to repair the collet, nut and shaft.
                        capncarl

                        Comment

                        • radhak
                          Veteran Member
                          • Apr 2006
                          • 3058
                          • Miramar, FL
                          • Right Tilt 3HP Unisaw

                          #13
                          Update : Success!!!

                          Hah! Success at last!! I got the bit out!!!

                          Thanks to each one of you - I believe I must have used every bit of advice on this page !

                          Some things I learned today
                          - that it's **** easy to grind a wrench to make it thinner; my tiny grinder made it like it was made of butter, saving me the time and money for a new set;
                          - also, that I was using the wrong wrench size - when ground thinner the 1/2" proved to be a hair too big by size; but fortunately I also had a metric 12, which fit nicely once ground down. Wonder why PC has a metric sized bolt for a US product?

                          But anyway, once ready I put that wrench in the vise, and heaved the other larger wrench with all my might. But for Loring and Bill, I'd have been stopped short of applying full pressure, doubting the direction. As it is, it was shocking, in a heart-warming fashion, to feel the bolt move!

                          Even the bit was not damaged; though it's past its usefulness for me. The router itself works great, even though the well of the collet was full of dust and took some cleaning.

                          Now I'm ready to use a trim router. And to imagine this morning I was ready to buy a new one!

                          Thanks, y'all!
                          It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.
                          - Aristotle

                          Comment

                          • LCHIEN
                            Internet Fact Checker
                            • Dec 2002
                            • 20914
                            • Katy, TX, USA.
                            • BT3000 vintage 1999

                            #14
                            great! glad to be of some help.

                            L

                            P.S. some of you may not want to grind on a wrench that is a part of a set of wrenches... that bugs me anyway.
                            If I want to modify a wrench I'll go to a pawn shop and they usually have a bin of open end wrenches of all sizes and makes. Pick one of the size you need and offer them a buck, compromise on 2 bucks or so when they counteroffer. Then go and grind on that one. ALso consider picking up specific wrenches for leaving with various tools... I got a set of two for my BT3 arbor (I think 3/4 and 1/2") that hang on the end that are a little nicer to use than the flat wrenches. Buying three or four wrenches can get you a better deal. Think of your drill press and miter saw and lathe and router table and bandsaw.

                            P.S. my Bosch routers have metric collets and collet nuts even though the collet opening is in inches 1/4 and 1/2". I have seen metric collets that fit 6mm and 12mm shank bits... those must be in Europe as I've never encountered them.
                            Last edited by LCHIEN; 01-03-2015, 01:44 PM.
                            Loring in Katy, TX USA
                            If your only tool is a hammer, you tend to treat all problems as if they were nails.
                            BT3 FAQ - https://www.sawdustzone.org/forum/di...sked-questions

                            Comment

                            • leehljp
                              Just me
                              • Dec 2002
                              • 8429
                              • Tunica, MS
                              • BT3000/3100

                              #15
                              Originally posted by LCHIEN

                              P.S. my Bosch routers have metric collets and collet nuts even though the collet opening is in inches 1/4 and 1/2". I have seen metric collets that fit 6mm and 12mm shank bits... those must be in Europe as I've never encountered them.
                              And Japan for sure, and I suspect Asia too.
                              Hank Lee

                              Experience is what you get when you don't get what you wanted!

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