Craftsman 16'' Variable Speed Scroll Saw (21602) for < $50 - Would you buy?

[tohellwithuga]

On my shortlist is a benchtop scroll saw. Since I have some points from buying the 21829 at Sears, I have been playing around with coupons, and found that I can get the Craftsman 16'' Variable Speed Scroll Saw (21602) for under $50, plus I have $20 in points, so it would be even less (http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_00921602000P). I'm wondering how good of a deal this is. I have never owned a scroll saw before, so I don't want to spend too much on one if it doesn't suit my work. From the reviews, it seems that people have had problems using pinless blades, and it does have some vibration issues. But, for under $50, is this acceptable? Would you buy it? Should I keep looking on Craigslist? I don't have any specific plans for it, other than Awana derby cars and random small projects. TIA!

[woodturner]

I don't have any specific plans for it, other than Awana derby cars and random small projects. TIA!

Do you have or have you considered a bandsaw? Unless you need to do interior cutouts without an entrance joint, a bandsaw will do most of what a scroll saw will do, and a lot more.

The downsides to a bandsaw is that the finish cut is a little rougher, they turning radius is a bit larger, and you need to cut a slit to enter enclosed areas.

Upsides to a bandsaw are that you can cut thicker material, can work with larger pieces, and it cuts a lot quicker.

I'm not specifically familiar with the Sears, but most of the low end scroll saws work OK for infrequent use. I have an AMT (an older Asian clone) and it works fine, just a little loud and it vibrates a bit. I put a piece of sandpaper or some valve grinding compound in the clamps to improve the grip on pinless blades, or you can upgrade the clamps relatively inexpensively.

I'm not a big fan of the older Delta/Powermatic stationary jigsaws - I have three, never use them, and would rather sell them. That's often what you find on Craigslist, though, so waiting may not be to your advantage.

I still would choose the bandsaw over the scrollsaw, though, if I had to choose only one.

[dbhost]

What he said sort of... However a scroll saw has its purposes, especially if you are needing to cut out negative spaces, or cut smoothly in tight Radii.

Not familiar with the particular saw you are looking at, but for that price, it has to be better than the HF scroll saw that goes for $67.99 on sale...

FWIW, Craigslist tends to be full of used Scroll Saws.... I picked up an old Dremel scroll saw in good working condition for $20.00

[cwsmith]

In a word, "YES".... for that price, it would be worthwhile just to have for the occasional (though perhaps very rare) need that may come up (see below). A scroll saw is also just fun to play with, providing you can solve any issues with pinless blades.

I'd look carefully at the blade clamp mechanism to see if there is any reason why there should be an issue with pinless blades. The jaws should be good steel and the screws need to be firmly tightened... you can't do that with soft steel and certainly NOT aluminum.

I have the old Ryobi 18-inch variable-speed, which I purchased for something like $80 back in 2003 (it retailed for around $180), but for whatever reason that Christmas HD had a super sale. The Ryobi was very much like the pre-2003 Ridgid 16-inch in design. The same model was carried a long time by Sears, as the Craftman 18-nch. That model came with a variable-speed foot switch, which my Ryobi doesn't have.

I disagree somewhat in the appraisal that you can do almost everything with a band saw that the scroll saw can do. First off, the band saw is a much hardier machine, and significantly more efficient as a wood cutting tool. However, you can't begin to get a blade nearly as small as those for scroll sawing; and thus, you can do some really small intricate work, almost lace-like, and there are a variety of blade types to aid that.

The scroll saw as allows for thru cuts, drilling a small hole, inserting the blade through that, and refastening it to the saw's blade vise. As mentioned by one of the other posters, that is something a band saw cannot do. But, such cuts can me significantly small and with radius' only a fraction of an inch.

I don't use my scroll-saw very much at all. Just not into that kind of work, but the it is fun to play with if you find the time and interest. First thing I did was make a little self-standing name-thingy (highly technical term ) for my wife Patty. Cutting it out of a piece of scrap. Fun, not particularly skillfull though, but she like it. But it's fine little curves, and the thru-cuts required for the "P" and the "A" certainly couldn't have been done with any other power tool. Certainly, for me, gives one a idea of what a scroll saw is capable of though.

I hope this helps,

CWS

[durango dude]

I have a very nice Craftsman scroll saw ---- and it sees very little use.

Don't think I'd ever buy one (mine was a gift).

Since I purchased a band saw - it has been relegated to the corner.
The few times I think I might use it --- I use a Jig Saw, instead.

[Cochese]

A scroll would be nice to have, but I'm not sure I'd buy one. $30 seems like a great buy, but that $20 could go to other, more useful things IMO.

[tohellwithuga]

Thanks for all the opinions! I did find some videos of reviews / tips for this scroll saw (these in particular were helpful - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gub81Jx5eds). The negatives seem to be somewhat difficult pinless blade change, no light, and vibration / knocking at high tension. But the guy in the video was able to work around all of those.

I honestly don't know how much I would use it - as mentioned, it would probably end up on a shelf most of the time. I haven't been able to find the elusive $20-$30 Craigslist deal on one, either.

Also on my short list is a drum/disc sander (should be able to find a deal on - was actually thinking about this Rikon from Sears - http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_00937414000P, which would be ~$90 after coupons, but has to be shipped to store in 2 weeks or so), an air filtration system, planer, and jointer (these are a bit harder to find deals on).

[cwsmith]

Check out the Ryobi BD4601 (http://www.ryobitools.com/catalog/po.../corded/BD4601)

and the Harbor Freight (http://www.harborfreight.com/4-inch-...der-97181.html) offering.

The Ryobi is very much like the Craftsman and is similarly priced. The HF unit is a slightly different design and somewhat cheaper.

My only problem with Craftsman power tools is that the warranty (at least the last time I looked) is only one year, which is considerably less than other major brands. The Ryobi has a 3-year warranty, with a 30-day Satisfaction guarantee. Often during the holidays, the price is reduced.

HF only comes with a 90-day warranty, but is currently on sale for $80. HF of course is never a problem with returning anything within the warranty period; and, I believe you can acquire a full 1-year 'return warranty' for about $10 or so.

I have the Ryobi, BD4600. The thing is built like a tank. I have heard of some problems with the drive belt, but I have had no problems with mine and have used it quite a bit in the ten years that I have had it. I use an "Xtra-Life" abrasive cleaner block to remove build-up on the belt and disc, and as a result, I have yet to need any replacements.

I hope this is helpful,

CWS

[tohellwithuga]

Check out the Ryobi BD4601 (http://www.ryobitools.com/catalog/po.../corded/BD4601)

and the Harbor Freight (http://www.harborfreight.com/4-inch-...der-97181.html) offering.

Thanks, cwsmith (re: sander). The Ryobi does look very similar. I had thought about the HF, but the main problem there is that they are over an hour drive for me.

But the one I linked above was actually a Rikon, which has a 5 year warranty. It actually looks almost identical to the Ryobi that you linked (even spec-wise). The only difference I can find is the tool support - although the Ryobi does look a little cleaner / more polished.



I just played around with the coupons again, and it looks like I can get it for $100 and get $26 in points back, so it would be ~$75 or so. The only thing is, I would have to pick it up in store in a couple weeks (shipping is $70).

[durango dude]

IMO, a sander would be a much better "investment" than a scroll saw.

If I was limiting myself to around $100 ---- I think I'd get a palm belt sander from PC (371) or Triton (TCMBS). They're about right for woodworking --- anything bigger is carpentry equipment.

(The Orange temple has the Triton for $79, right now - look for "Kreg palm belt")

As for a disc sander - you get the same thing with a drill - or ROS (ROS is better, in fact).

I've found hand-held belt sanders more handy than stationary tools. A palm belt sander plus a drill with a disc attachment will do the same thing as the combo stationary tool ---- and they're more versatile.

[dbhost]

Not sure about your equipment so far, but if you can come up with the funds, I would recommend going with a Ridgid EB4424 spindle / edge belt oscillating sander and then if you have a lathe, build a disc sander attachment for it...

[JSUPreston]

Thanks, cwsmith (re: sander). The Ryobi does look very similar. I had thought about the HF, but the main problem there is that they are over an hour drive for me.

But the one I linked above was actually a Rikon, which has a 5 year warranty. It actually looks almost identical to the Ryobi that you linked (even spec-wise). The only difference I can find is the tool support - although the Ryobi does look a little cleaner / more polished.



I just played around with the coupons again, and it looks like I can get it for $100 and get $26 in points back, so it would be ~$75 or so. The only thing is, I would have to pick it up in store in a couple weeks (shipping is $70).

I had Ryobi sander and never liked it. No matter what I did, the table wouldn't stay square, and the motor didn't last very long. A while back, I got the Ridgid spindle/belt sander. It's a tool worth it's price.

BTW: Eastwood auto products sells the Ryobi/Rikon sander as well. Here's the link: http://www.eastwood.com/4-inch-x-36-...der-49407.html

[LCHIEN]

a scroll saw is a fun thing to have, you can make a lot of personal items with it that you can't make with a bandsaw, I've used mine to make a number of name plates. other people make nice stuff, like inlays and intarsia, also good for toys and small intricate items.

A sander is very worthwhile. I my self prefer the benchtop 6" disk 4" belt sander combos over handheld. The handheld ROS are good for finishing furniture and stuff - their claim is that they aren't too aggressive but make a sanding mark-free surface,

The benchtop combo is what you need for precision sanding... it has the miter and table and stops to make right angle perpendicular square sanded surfaces and rounded corners. As well as perfect 45° or other angle chamfers and stuff. They're more aggressive for shaping and corners than ROS.

I also have a oscillating spindle sander which is great for making curves. And a 1" benchtop belt sander for detail work.

And yes I do have a handheld ROS and a Sheet sander.

If I had to give up the scross saw or the belt/disc sander, It'd probably be the scroll saw. Because you use the sander for so much stuff. But I do use the scroll saw and its fun.

As for the specific saw, $50 is a pretty good buy - I think a VS 16" scroll saw is usually over $100. The features I'd look for in a scroll saw are VS, pin + pinless blade capability, blower. That unit appears to have all of them. What you can't tell is how well its executed... is it smooth and vibration free, does the hold down work well, etc. I'm sure there's a return policy if you don't like it, at Sears, no?

Final thought: A scroll saw would be for stuff you wouldn't otherwise do. A sander, well, its a sander, you use it for all the stuff you do. Its basic, a scroll saw is special.

[lrr]

Loring,

Nice work! You have a lot more patience than I do. :-)

I have a Ryobi scroll saw, and for as often as I use one, it is OK. I think I just prefer to make almost anything except items that require a scroll saw! I did make a couple ornaments when I first got it, but it sees very little use these days. My passion these days is wood turning. I bought my first lathe just a couple years ago, although I've been a woodworker for 40+ years.

One of my favorite tools in my shop is the Ridgid oscillating drum/belt sander. This tool is just amazing! I use it a lot. I have a small Dremel 1" belt / 5" disk sander, and it was bought mostly for hobby use, it is a bit undersized to be real useful in a wood shop. I wouldn't mind having a large disk sander -- like a 12" one, but so far not enough true demand to actually go buy one.

My woodworking use model has changed significantly lately. I was going to get a SawStop cabinet saw, and decided to get a Festool track saw instead. (Primary need is breaking down plywood for cabinets.) Awesome saw! I'm hooked on Festool, and a Domino is next on the list, probably an early Christmas gift. I always manage to buy nice things for myself at Christmas-time that are just what I wanted ... :-)

And I've also learned to get my wife something nice too. And then make her stuff, or remodel yet another room.

[tohellwithuga]

a scroll saw is a fun thing to have, you can make a lot of personal items with it that you can't make with a bandsaw, I've used mine to make a number of name plates. other people make nice stuff, like inlays and intarsia, also good for toys and small intricate items.

A sander is very worthwhile. I my self prefer the benchtop 6" disk 4" belt sander combos over handheld. The handheld ROS are good for finishing furniture and stuff - their claim is that they aren't too aggressive but make a sanding mark-free surface,

The benchtop combo is what you need for precision sanding... it has the miter and table and stops to make right angle perpendicular square sanded surfaces and rounded corners. As well as perfect 45° or other angle chamfers and stuff. They're more aggressive for shaping and corners than ROS.

Good points, these are basically my thoughts, too. Although I have never owned a scroll saw, there are many (well, at least a few) times that I *thought* I needed one, usually while trying to do something with my bandsaw and/or coping saw. Granted, my skill level and quality of tools could have had a lot to do with that, too (I only have a 10" benchtop Craftsman-clearance bandsaw).

For the sander, I own a 1/4 sheet sander and handheld ROS, and a couple of old belt sanders that I inherited from my dad (not sure if they are even usable). Like you said, I just don't see how you would get the same precision with a handheld unit that you would with the bench combo.

I also have a oscillating spindle sander which is great for making curves. And a 1" benchtop belt sander for detail work.

And yes I do have a handheld ROS and a Sheet sander.

If I had to give up the scross saw or the belt/disc sander, It'd probably be the scroll saw. Because you use the sander for so much stuff. But I do use the scroll saw and its fun.

As for the specific saw, $50 is a pretty good buy - I think a VS 16" scroll saw is usually over $100. The features I'd look for in a scroll saw are VS, pin + pinless blade capability, blower. That unit appears to have all of them. What you can't tell is how well its executed... is it smooth and vibration free, does the hold down work well, etc. I'm sure there's a return policy if you don't like it, at Sears, no?

Final thought: A scroll saw would be for stuff you wouldn't otherwise do. A sander, well, its a sander, you use it for all the stuff you do. Its basic, a scroll saw is special.

Thanks again for the input! I'm not sure how great the Craftsman scroll saw is at any of these things, either (and, from watching some videos, probably not great). But, then again, as I said earlier, not knowing how much I will really use it, I don't want to sink too much into it either. I'm sure if I kept looking on Craigslist I would eventually find something better...

As mentioned by others, the Ridgid oscillating drum/belt sander does look interesting, too. It's not carried by Sears, though, and I'm trying to use up some points/coupons...

Oh, and, great looking work, Loring!