Intentionally opting away from HF tools...

[dbhost]

I know I am going to put some people into shock, but I am intentionally avoiding the HF version of a tool I need to get a job done...

My Saturn started blowing hot air from the AC the other day at idle, and I noticed that at idle speed the compressor clutch would NOT kick on to save it's life... Well out came the Blue Point manifold gauges...

Have I mentioned it's been a LONG time since I worked as a mechanic professionally?

I forgot about the change from R12 to R134A refridgerant...

I could get a set of adapters, but honestly, the original plastic knobs have busted off years ago, and the gauge faces are hard to read. Time for a new set...

Now don't get me wrong, if the set was well made, the US General manifold gauge from HF has a lot of features to like, quick connects, blow molded storage case, long hoses. But the fact that it is well noted for leaks, particularly when freon is involved is a non starter for me...

I know not many of you are familiar with Mastercool, but they have been in the AC tools business for decades. And honestly, it looks like an updated version of my Blue Point set. (Blue Point / Snap On, Matco, Mac etc... rebadge Mastercool and sell them at a huge markup). The price on Amazon is insanely low... I just need to cough up the extra for shipping it fast...

Even comes with a can tap!

[cabinetman]

You have to be comfortable with the tools you use...even if they cost more.

.

[dbhost]

Exactly...

A Robinaire set would have been nice too, but I prefer the Mastercool as it is a cast brass body, with metal handles instead of plastic... The Robinaires I have seen have plastic knobs...

[JimD]

$80 versus $55 for name brand versus HF, seems like an obvious choice. My son just purchased the HF stuff for this but he left it outside when he left town unexpectedly. I went over and moved his tools inside but I did not see the gauge set. The case was there but not the gauges. If they wandered off, maybe Dad should get him an upgraded replacement.

Jim

[dbhost]

Might not need to buy. A college friend of mine locally here just texted me, he has an R134a manifold gauge set, and claims he knows how to recover without a big expensive machine.... Would love to know that secret...

I suspect my high side is going to be very high, and my low side very low... I get a wierd whistling noise just before it starts blowing cold. I suspect the expansion valve / reciever dryer might be jammed up somehow.

[JimD]

My son replaced a compressor in an old SUV for a lady at his church. The church is supposed to cover his parts and tool cost. He had previously put on a shorter serpentine belt to get the SUV functional when the compressor locked up and shredded the belt. The HF tools got the job done but he seemed to have a bunch of empty cans of refrigerant lying around.

Jim

[dbhost]

That's where I am leery. The HF manifold gauge set, not the gauges so much, but the hoses, has earned a reputation for leaking like a sieve... An air conditioning system once closed up and evacuated, should remain closed (meaning no unintentional leaks in or out). Leaking hoses to gauges give you bad readings, introduce air and moisture to the system, and pour expensive, and environmentally damaging refridgerant into the atmosphere... Not acceptable... The failure rate I am seeing on the reviews at least at the HF site is about 50%, and I just can't accept that.

Since I will be borrowing the gauges etc... for my AC work this weekend, I think I am good. This is the first time in 17 years these gauges haven't just been dangling in the way... What can I say? I'm not usually the one with A/C problems...

[kramer katt]

dbhost
do you think the bad HF hoses could be fixed? Maybe putting the same fittings on another set of rubber hoses? Are the fittings sealed by those factory crimped, with no user repairable parts.
kk

[LCHIEN]

DBH, you don't have to apologize. Everyone knows that HF stuff has hits and misses, the secret is buying the hits and avoiding the misses. Reading the reviews is one way, looking at the sporadic annual informal surveys here is another. Readings forum posts here and elsewhere on specific items is a third.

[cabinetman]

That's where I am leery. The HF manifold gauge set, not the gauges so much, but the hoses, has earned a reputation for leaking like a sieve... An air conditioning system once closed up and evacuated, should remain closed (meaning no unintentional leaks in or out). Leaking hoses to gauges give you bad readings, introduce air and moisture to the system, and pour expensive, and environmentally damaging refridgerant into the atmosphere... Not acceptable... The failure rate I am seeing on the reviews at least at the HF site is about 50%, and I just can't accept that.

Since I will be borrowing the gauges etc... for my AC work this weekend, I think I am good. This is the first time in 17 years these gauges haven't just been dangling in the way... What can I say? I'm not usually the one with A/C problems...

I remember having A/C work done and they used a leak detector. That might do the system, and as suggested if the hoses leak, just change them out.

.

[dbhost]

It's the hose ends that everyone complains about, the factory crimps are no good. The HF mainfold gauges are something along the lines of $59.00, a good set of hoses from Amazon (either Robinaire, or Mastercool) is $35.00 minimum. Meaning that I would have $94.00 + tax minimum into getting the HF units to work right. The Mastercool set is $79.99 with free shipping... Financially, the HF set is a non starter...

Now if I had a hose end crimp tool to make sure the HF hoses were crimped all the way tight, it might be a bargain after all...

My friend's offer of loaing me the gauges makes this all a moot point anyway. I would rather not spend the money at all on a new set of gauges. I have taken some Plastix plastic lens polish and my buffing wheel and cleared up the hazy gauge faces on my R12 unit, and have found a set of Mastercool R12 to R134a hose conversion fittings (since it is just the hose ends that differ) on Amazon for cheap. I figure I will take my existing gauge to Ace Hardware, and see if I can replace the knobs with some metal ones before I buy those fittings. If I can I will just update my R12 unit (circa 1987 Robinaire) to work with R134a. Chances of me ever working on R12 again are beyond minimal... At this point, if I bought an older car that had a low, or dry system that needed repair, I would convert to 134a anyway. The cost and availability of R12 is staggering...

[woodturner]

the hazy gauge faces on my R12 unit, and have found a set of Mastercool R12 to R134a hose conversion fittings (since it is just the hose ends that differ) on Amazon for cheap.

I thought the pressure range was different for R12 and R134a?

[phrog]

Back to the title of this thread - for the most part, I've always considered HF as throw-aways that I've bought for a particular purpose. I bought an $8 sander to sand flaking paint on my house. At the end of my project it died and I threw it away. Therefore, I saved the wear and tear on my Porter Cable. $8 for a throw away that got the job done was a no-brainer. The only time I bought a "keeper" was the lathe that so many on this site have recommended and it seems to be a good one. It's not a store to which I go thinking that I'm going to buy an expensive tool that will last me the rest of my life.

[dbhost]

I thought the pressure range was different for R12 and R134a?

Yes, R12 systems run substantially higher high side pressures than R134a. Low side readings in approximately the same range. My current gauges will read accurately at the lower pressures of an R134a system. The needle will just be closer to the left than the right...

Here is a pressure / temp chart for 134a and 12 systems for reference.

http://www.ackits.com/aacf/ptchart.cfm

[LinuxRandal]

Mastercool makes GOOD stuff. Maybe not all of it, but I don't have experience with all of it, or all of any tool. I do know I have been drooling over their brake and fuel line flaring kit for quite a while, after one job where it would have been a LOT quicker to get done, then waiting on replacement parts. I don't know if I would ever need it like I did, but I do keep my eyes open for retiring guys, that have specialty tools like it. After you get the job done with your bought (cobbled) solution, you will probably find a set at a garage sale, for $15, if you have my luck.