Consumer Alert - Avanti and Avanti Pro blades are NOT from Freud

[Knottscott]

This is not new info but is something I'd like to see more awareness about...

In June 2009, Freud ceased manufacturing of their well regarded "TK/Avanti" line, citing too much overlap with their similar Diablo and their upper Industrial line. The Avanti line was a quality value oriented blade that were widely distributed. You may still find some inventories of new old stock.

Shortly after, HD began carrying a line of "Avanti" and "Avanti Pro" blades that use a similar font and look on the Avanti trademark logo. These blades are much lower quality than the former Freud Avanti line, are made in China, and having nothing to do with Freud as far as I know. You'll find smaller inferior carbide, sloppy brazing, cheaper stamped steel bodies, etc. The new Avanti line resembles the Oldham contractor line, and the new Avanti Pro line resembles the DeWalt construction line. I have no idea who's manufacturing them, but they're not made in Italy by Freud. HD may not be doing anything illegal, but I'm a bit chafed at the idea of many unsuspecting consumers buying an inferior imitation while thinking they're getting a quality Freud blade. It seems deceptive to me, and I think the imitations should be avoided. Buyer beware....if it doesn't say "Freud" clearly on the front of the blade, it probably isn't.

Freud Avanti TK406 60T blade:


Imitation "Avanti" 60T blade:


Here's a look at an Oldham 60T finish blade:


Here's a (small) look at the new "Avanti Pro" 60T blade:


Here's a look at the DeWalt DW3126 60T blade:

[woodturner]

HD may not be doing anything illegal, but I'm a bit chafed at the idea of many unsuspecting consumers buying an inferior imitation while thinking they're getting a quality Freud blade.

Opinions of quality vary, so who is to say the new "low end" blades are not equivalent to the blades Freud manufactured under contract for HD and sold by the "Avanti" name owned by HD? Making something overseas does not mean that it is lower quality.

I doubt any "unsuspecting" customers will think they are getting a "quality blade" at the Avanti price tier. Freud branded blades are reasonable mid range blades, but the Avanti blades have always been entry level blades targeted for remodeling use rather than woodworker's blades.

[LCHIEN]

i just ordered a Freud Avanti TK806 from Rockler, $30 with free shipping. Supposed to be closeout of the Frued Avanti line. Figured it was about the same price as getting my present TK806 sharpened...

Thanks for the warning, easy to see how one could be fooled. I do see a "TM" by the logo on the new blade pictures. Weird that Freud would have sold its trademark (I'm assuming that's what happened) even if they no longer intended to market it. With the mental association of the name with Freud, lowering of the quality expectations would tarnish Freud, is my thinking. For the same reason, I would assume that if they had not sold the TM, then they would go after the illegal user of such a trademark, even if not being used, again to protect the mental name associations.

[dbhost]

That is truly sad....

I really like my Freud Diablo blades, and would be seriously ticked off if I bought a blade thinking it was a Freud and it was something along the lines of Vermont American, or worse...

[cgallery]

Weird that Freud would have sold its trademark (I'm assuming that's what happened) even if they no longer intended to market it. With the mental association of the name with Freud, lowering of the quality expectations would tarnish Freud, is my thinking. For the same reason, I would assume that if they had not sold the TM, then they would go after the illegal user of such a trademark, even if not being used, again to protect the mental name associations.

Yeah, that is the part I don't get. The only two answers I can see: (1) Trademark didn't belong entirely to Freud. (2) They were offered a boatload of $$$.

But I agree that it doesn't make sense to part w/ a respected trademark associated with your company, if you can help it. This case proves the point.

[Knottscott]

...Opinions of quality vary, so who is to say the new "low end" blades are not equivalent to the blades Freud manufactured under contract for HD and sold by the "Avanti" name owned by HD? Making something overseas does not mean that it is lower quality...

These blades are unquestionably lower quality than anything Freud's ever put their name on or manufactured for others, and AFAIK, HD never owned the Avanti name until Freud dropped the line. The manufacturing of these new blades is sloppy, the processes used are inferior, the carbide is inferior, the steel on the bodies is inferior, and quite possibly the sharpening level but that one's hard to tell from a glance. You might be surprised that even a newbie might notice that these are not quality blades.

The Chinese are indeed capable of making a quality blade (ie: Tenryu RS25550, the entire Oshlun line, the DeWalt 7670 dado set, etc), but these blades aren't among them. Most companies don't transfer manufacturing from Italy, Germany, Israel, USA, or the UK to China to improve quality...it's to lower costs, and that they've done.

Weird that Freud would have sold its trademark (I'm assuming that's what happened) even if they no longer intended to market it. With the mental association of the name with Freud, lowering of the quality expectations would tarnish Freud, is my thinking.

Good point.... I didn't notice the "TM" logo on the actual Freud blade... did I miss it or was the trade name never trademarked?

[tommyt654]

Guess I,m missing the point here, Its been widely known for well over 8 mo,s about this, only a consumer with limited knowledge would buy this blade at home depot and with that limited knowledge comes a skill level appropriate to that, So whats the big deal. Only we as more highly skilled individuals would care, Frankly I think its beating a long dead horse.

[WoodTherapist]

I did not know about this and I want to thank those who posted the information here.

[Cubsfan]

I did not know about this and I want to thank those who posted the information here.

Same here. Thanks for the tip!

[woodturner]

These blades are unquestionably lower quality than anything Freud's ever put their name on or manufactured for others, and AFAIK, HD never owned the Avanti name until Freud dropped the line.

I have not seen the new blades, and I don't have reliable first-hand information about who owns the Avanti trademark. However, a web search suggests that HD owns the brand and licensed it to Freud to manufacture blades for sale at HD.

Most companies don't transfer manufacturing from Italy, Germany, Israel, USA, or the UK to China to improve quality...it's to lower costs, and that they've done.

Lower cost does not necessarily mean lower quality. With the declining dollar, some European countries are outsourcing to the US to cut costs, so they could make similar arguments.

There have been allegations on other forums that the Freud "Made in Italy" blades are made in China. Personally, I don't think the country of origin really matters - every country makes products intended to sell for a low price as well as quality products.

[rollo]

Thanks for posting Knotscott. I appreciate these watch-dog type efforts of cost reduction at the expense of quality.

[Knottscott]

I have not seen the new blades, and I don't have reliable first-hand information about who owns the Avanti trademark. However, a web search suggests that HD owns the brand and licensed it to Freud to manufacture blades for sale at HD.



Lower cost does not necessarily mean lower quality. With the declining dollar, some European countries are outsourcing to the US to cut costs, so they could make similar arguments.

There have been allegations on other forums that the Freud "Made in Italy" blades are made in China. Personally, I don't think the country of origin really matters - every country makes products intended to sell for a low price as well as quality products.

To be clear, the "Avanti & Avanti-PRO saw blades carried at Home Depot are not manufactured by Freud". That info was confirmed by a very reliable and well respected Freud source.

Also to be clear, I have no axe to grind with HD, and no particular love for, or bias for Freud blades or products, although I've typically been favorably impressed with any of the Freud products that I've tried. It's my opinion that the new Avanti or Avanti Pro blades are not in the same league as even the entry level Freud Avanti and Diablo blades, or the similar Ridgid Titanium or Craftsman Pro blades that are (or were) supposedly made by Freud (all made in Italy BTW). I also think they're lowing quality than the Chinese made Blue Tornado, Oshlun, Tenryu blades and DeWalt 7670 dado set...everything about the new Avanti and Avanti Pro is lower quality, and it has nothing to do with cost or country of origin...simply put, they're lousy blades, and I thought it might be beneficial to alert others. If the new Avanti or Avanti Pro blades were of comparable quality to the Freuds or even other lower cost value lines, I'd really have little beef with them using the trademark name.

[LCHIEN]

I have not seen the new blades, and I don't have reliable first-hand information about who owns the Avanti trademark. However, a web search suggests that HD owns the brand and licensed it to Freud to manufacture blades for sale at HD.

...

Now that would explain everything. Has anyone seen the Freud Avantis or the new Avantis sold anywhere but HD?

Having made the Avanti name have a positive consumer rep based on association with and quality by Freud, now HD terminates the arrangements and has other OEMs in china make the blades under the same TM.

[Pappy]

Now that would explain everything. Has anyone seen the Freud Avantis or the new Avantis sold anywhere but HD?
Having made the Avanti name have a positive consumer rep based on association with and quality by Freud, now HD terminates the arrangements and has other OEMs in china make the blades under the same TM.

Yes, Lowe's carried the Freud Avanti blades.

[sparkeyjames]

Yes, Lowe's carried the Freud Avanti blades.

I can confirm this having bought my 50 tooth multipurpose Freud Avanti there.