Advice on table saw choice

[Charlie]

not true. The saw is still in production under the Sears Craftsman label. Replacement parts are still very much available. Originally the Ryobi saw was $1000 and came down to $300, now the craftsman version is about $450 last I checked.


This is also the downfall of the Ryobi saw IMO. HD had an exclusive deal to sell Ryobi products but I don't think I even saw a BT3xxx set up properly in the stores. Looks and feel of the display scared off many people not for the quality of the saw, but for the poor assembly/knowledge of the staff at HD.


buying used equipment of any sort does not support US jobs. You'd need to buy new products made in the USA. Good luck finding ANY saw that fits that bill any more.


you consider it an outlandish claim when you've already admitted that you've never used the product in question. So who is being outlandish? I've got 6 years experience with this saw, and have had used other saws so can make an honest comparison.

Ok, the parts maybe sold through Sears, but if I was going to spend $250 on a motor, I'd feel better about it if it was for a more expensive saw, and that the motor would be American made, this is what I meant about suporting US jobs. Lowes did the samething with the Delta Contractor' table saw. Whoever set up the store display didn't line up the wings flat with the top, and set the saw on the stand backwards. They eventually droped the Delta and hung on to the lesser quality Hitachi Hybrid. As KnottScott said, or something like it, It doesn't fit the bill for me, I think I've allready explained the reasons why. But like I said, if your happy with the saw thats all that matters. If I was looking for a saw the size and or weight of a Jobsite table saw I'd consider the Ryobi / Craftsman. It's alot cheaper then the DeWalt or the Bosch, etc. which I think are grossly overpriced. Although, I'm not a big fan of the slideing table, it might get used some with larger boards if the 12" compound miter saw can't handle them, but I don't see that happening alot. I think I'd rather just have a seperate sled for the larger boards.

[Russianwolf]

Actually the saw has changed, it's no longer in production.

not true. The saw is still in production under the Sears Craftsman label. Replacement parts are still very much available. Originally the Ryobi saw was $1000 and came down to $300, now the craftsman version is about $450 last I checked.

I'll also say that Contractor table saws I think recently have gotten a really unfair bad rap, many were used in cabinet shops. In some cases the birth and advertiseing hype of the Hybrid table saw that seems to have no set standards has takein over some to the uninformed consumer because they look like a Cabinet table saw, in other words when shopping for a Hybrid table saw you need to do your homework.

This is also the downfall of the Ryobi saw IMO. HD had an exclusive deal to sell Ryobi products but I don't think I even saw a BT3xxx set up properly in the stores. Looks and feel of the display scared off many people not for the quality of the saw, but for the poor assembly/knowledge of the staff at HD.

I also feel that now is not the time to be suporting companies that send jobs overseas, and is a good time right now to be buying used American made equipment.

buying used equipment of any sort does not support US jobs. You'd need to buy new products made in the USA. Good luck finding ANY saw that fits that bill any more.

What I don't like about this site are the outlandish claims that Harbor Frieght tools are great, and that a Ryobi BT table saw is better then a Contractor's table saw, is the original Hybrid table saw, and is equal to a Industrial Cabinet table saw. People who claim all this remind me of either a used car salesman, or someone that doesn't know what they are talking about.

you consider it an outlandish claim when you've already admitted that you've never used the product in question. So who is being outlandish? I've got 6 years experience with this saw, and have had used other saws so can make an honest comparison.

I was going to say more, but why bother.

[Russianwolf]

When I first joined this forum, the support, and the attitudes of those seemed to be in support of the low-cost BT3x00 saw system. This forum was a lot of fun, then. Not so anymore. Let's see. What has changed? The BT3100, nope -- everytime I go down to my shop it works the same as it did when new. Wood? Nope, that hasn't changed since then either. Hmm, I wonder what has changed? Other Saws? Perhaps.

Others' attitudes -- markedly! That does not change the wood nor the cuts I make. I do not require others' judgements or approval in order to make the saw cuts I require for my work. And I don't like the above poster's comments either.

This forum has changed.

I admit, I've been away for a while, Spending more time on turning sites (as I have a Grizzly lathe), but I have to agree the attitudes have changed and I don't like it. This used to be the place where tool snobbery was something we chided the other sites while we looked for the best bang for the buck.

[Brian G]

My tools are better than anybody else's tools, so there!

[Charlie]

When I first joined this forum, the support, and the attitudes of those seemed to be in support of the low-cost BT3x00 saw system. This forum was a lot of fun, then. Not so anymore. Let's see. What has changed? The BT3100, nope -- everytime I go down to my shop it works the same as it did when new. Wood? Nope, that hasn't changed since then either. Hmm, I wonder what has changed? Other Saws? Perhaps.

Others' attitudes -- markedly! That does not change the wood nor the cuts I make. I do not require others' judgements or approval in order to make the saw cuts I require for my work. And I don't like the above poster's comments either.

This forum has changed.

Actually the saw has changed, it's no longer in production. So if a motor goes out it will cost $250 plus shipping, and your at the mercy of Ryobi on that part. In the later years that was about the price for the whole saw. If the motor should ever go out on a Contractor's saw, there are several different electric motor companies in this country that make a motor that will fit, and I would feel better about giveing them my bussiness, plus they are probably alot better motor then what the BT has for the same price. I'll also say that Contractor table saws I think recently have gotten a really unfair bad rap, many were used in cabinet shops. In some cases the birth and advertiseing hype of the Hybrid table saw that seems to have no set standards has takein over some to the uninformed consumer because they look like a Cabinet table saw, in other words when shopping for a Hybrid table saw you need to do your homework. I also feel that now is not the time to be suporting companies that send jobs overseas, and is a good time right now to be buying used American made equipment. What I don't like about this site are the outlandish claims that Harbor Frieght tools are great, and that a Ryobi BT table saw is better then a Contractor's table saw, is the original Hybrid table saw, and is equal to a Industrial Cabinet table saw. People who claim all this remind me of either a used car salesman, or someone that doesn't know what they are talking about. Theirs nothing wrong with haveing pride in the tools you have, and I respect that, but lets not get carried away. I've been a woodworker for about 28 years, and what works for me is the made in the USA Contractor's table saw, a Cabinet table saw would be nice, but in the last few years woodworking has gotten to be even less profitable, crafts shows are down, cabinet shops are closeing, so it makes no sense for me to spend the extra money to upgrade, plus I'm currently unemployed, I couldn't afford the extra cost of the Cabinet table saw, and to have a new electrical service run to my shop. If the Ryobi table saw or any other is what works for you thats all that should matter. Thats just my opinion and reasons, like you have yours. I started out with a Skil table saw, and then a Delta Motorized table saw before I bought what I have now. They all worked and made the cut. It's just more pleasurable, and a time saver to use what I have now. I guess it depends on how serious you want to get into woodworking.

[tkarlmann]

My comment addressed possible reasons why so many BT Central members are becoming dark siders, and included no comments about the capabilities, or lack thereof, of the BT. Not everyone knows about the Craftsman version, or realizes it's the same saw, some won't buy anything from Sears, and some may not be willing to spend the money.

Regardless of the potential accuracy of the BT, it's capabilities, or your apparent strong feelings for this machine, it's still too light, too small, too loud, too finnicky, and too unorthodox for my liking (as were your comments) ...it's not for everyone.

When I first joined this forum, the support, and the attitudes of those seemed to be in support of the low-cost BT3x00 saw system. This forum was a lot of fun, then. Not so anymore. Let's see. What has changed? The BT3100, nope -- everytime I go down to my shop it works the same as it did when new. Wood? Nope, that hasn't changed since then either. Hmm, I wonder what has changed? Other Saws? Perhaps.

Others' attitudes -- markedly! That does not change the wood nor the cuts I make. I do not require others' judgements or approval in order to make the saw cuts I require for my work. And I don't like the above poster's comments either.

This forum has changed.

[Charlie]

Charlie,

I like your dust control modification of your Delta contractors saw. The type of design you came up with is built into the BT3100.

Jim

The link you gave me didn't show me the Ryobi design, so I looked up a parts schematic. I don't see how you figure that my design is like it. What I have on my saw is purely my design, no one elses.

[Knottscott]

...
Lets face it, if you're going to only be making a few pieces of furniture a year as a hobby the Hybrid saws are more than sufficient for your needs. Putting Cabinet saws in a part-time shop is probably an indication your hobby is collecting tools, not making sawdust.

I'd modify that statement a bit..."Putting Cabinet saws in a part-time shop is probably an indication that your hobby includes a passion for tools as well as making sawdust..." True in my case...the tools are a big part of the fun for me, but they're not trophies for display only.

[natausch]

Well thought out post Vaking.

There are many things I love about my BT3K, but a few things do stand out. The aluminum tabletop probably the most significant. As long as I'm in a 2 car garage though I'll need a semi-portable saw that has a smaller profile.

Lets face it, if you're going to only be making a few pieces of furniture a year as a hobby the Hybrid saws are more than sufficient for your needs. Putting Cabinet saws in a part-time shop is probably an indication your hobby is collecting tools, not making sawdust.

[vaking]

What about the Sears equivalent saw? What does marketing a saw have to do with it's capabilities?

That post sounds like Congress worrying about letting the top-brass of the big three automakers go because they were afraid they'd "lose the talent". I got news for ya: The talent and the capabilities ain't in the Marketing departments!!!!!!!!!!!!

I disagree.
The Craftsman version is still around and it is a decent saw but this version in my opinion is poorly packaged and marketed.
1). Craftsman saw comes on folding base so it looks like a job-site saw. It is also labeled "Craftsman Professional" implying it was meant for a professional use. This saw is neither. It is light duty - unfit for professional use. It is too delicate to be used as job-site saw. Job-site saw needs to be heavier duty but does not need accuracy of BT3. A folding base may come-in handy for a hobbyist working in the small space in the garage who needs his saw put away after every use. For a professional this saw would be a poor choice.

2). Craftsman saw comes packaged with router mounting kit to make a router table within the same saw. That accesory is, in my opinion, useless. I know I have that kit for my BT3100 and I am not using it. Usefull accesories for that saw are extension rails, micro-adjuster, long rip fence - none of that is included with Craftsman saw and most people don't even know they exist.

There were plenty examples of companies that made decent products but failed because of lousy marketing. There are also examples of companies who won thanks to marketing talent while having mediocre product. Need examples - ask BIll Gates.

In my opinion problem of BT3 saw is that it does not fit standard categorization and has no sizable market to be sold to. Standard saw categories are either heavy duty saws for professionals or light duty saws for homeowners. Within professional saws there are higher end systems that are heavy duty and accurate, there are mid-range systems that are heavy-duty and less accurate. High end features can often be added to mid-range saws (like few hundred dollar fence). Typical homeowner saw is light duty and does not have high end features. BT3 saw is light duty but with high end features. Those features make it accurate when properly tuned. Its market - hobbyist woodworker who wants to make high end furniture in his spare time. How big do you think is this market? May be there are people who want it but there are very few people with skills to do it. So I think Ryobi discontinued this saw after years of attempts to make profit on it. Ryobi home base are homeowners doing home repairs, not artists - furniture makers. Ryobi is simply sticking to its guns. Craftsman is making a crazy attempt to market this saw in yet one more inventive way. May be somebody will like an idea of having a saw and a router table together in the back of the truck in one neat package. Does not seem to be working - not really a surprise.

Don't get me wrong - I have BT3100 myself and I love it. I don't want another saw as long as this one works. But I am a hobbyist. In the field where I am a professional - I will not buy a cheaper tool that requires a lot of maintenance to stay accurate. I'd rather pay upfront for a more solid tool.

[Knottscott]

What about the Sears equivalent saw? What does marketing a saw have to do with it's capabilities?

That post sounds like Congress worrying about letting the top-brass of the big three automakers go because they were afraid they'd "lose the talent". I got news for ya: The talent and the capabilities ain't in the Marketing departments!!!!!!!!!!!!

My comment addressed possible reasons why so many BT Central members are becoming dark siders, and included no comments about the capabilities, or lack thereof, of the BT. Not everyone knows about the Craftsman version, or realizes it's the same saw, some won't buy anything from Sears, and some may not be willing to spend the money.

Regardless of the potential accuracy of the BT, it's capabilities, or your apparent strong feelings for this machine, it's still too light, too small, too loud, too finnicky, and too unorthodox for my liking (as were your comments) ...it's not for everyone.

[tkarlmann]

What about the Sears Model (BT saw equiv)

It probably has a lot to do with the fact that the BT is no longer marketed as such. It's not really negative toward a BT when someone prefers a characteristic of another saw over the BT. There are some advantages to other designs too.

What about the Sears equivalent saw? What does marketing a saw have to do with it's capabilities?

That post sounds like Congress worrying about letting the top-brass of the big three automakers go because they were afraid they'd "lose the talent". I got news for ya: The talent and the capabilities ain't in the Marketing departments!!!!!!!!!!!!

[eezlock]

advice on tablesaw choice

Welcome to the forum, first off. You have two good choices in these two saws.

(1) The Rockwell is a good/decent contractor saw of a solid basic design
that has been around for 40 yrs. or more and is still in service in a lot of
homeshops and small commercial cabinet shops. That Biese fence and
saw blade are worth more than the cost of the saw, if you were buy
new ones

(2) Bt3x00 saw is a good homeshop/casual user saw. It is a little more
finicky, when it comes to adjusting things on the saw and generally
likes to be used in one location as opposed to being moved around.

(3) I have two saws in my shop right now, one is a BT3100, the other a
Northstate 10" cast iron contractor saw with a 2hp motor on it. There
are things I like about both of them, but if I were doing it again...I
most likely would go with the cast iron contractor saw...personal
prefrence/observation.

[tseavoy]

I have had a Rockwell Delta table saw for over 45 years now, and I bought it used. It has never failed me, I don't adjust anything, the fence locks at both front and back, the cuts are as accurate as I can measure.
Years ago, I also had a Sears "contractor's" saw. This was a sliding blade saw, but it slid from underneath. A handle coming over the blade was used to pull the saw through the work. The blade crabbed through the work. If I shimmed the carriage to avoid this, it would bind. It really was a rough work saw.

Just adding to the chaos.

Tom on Marrowstone

At my age I have come to realize that the important things are
Faster horses,
Younger women,
Older whiskey, and
More money

(Tom T. Hall)

[JimD]

https://www.sawdustzone.org/articles...er-base-option

I think that link will get you to the article on my saw I entitled "Spruce and Sandeply". If not, if you to the BT3x section of this website and the link at the top to the old articles, you will find it. There is lots of information there if you really want to know about the BT3100. It is a belt driven saw with about 3.5 inches depth of cut. It will easily pass the "nickel test". The article was written before I added a maple raised panel door to the right hand compartment and oak flat panel doors to the compartment on the left and a cherry fronted drawer on the bottom in the middle. So the finished saw looks a little different but is functionally as described in the article.

I guess I can understand people wanting to link the BT3000/3100 to similar sized benchtop tools but it is simply not what these saws are. A little research, or listening to those of us that own them, will let you know otherwise.

With respect to rip fences fastening front and back or only front, I am aware that the Bisemeyer locks only front and works fine. I think the Vega locks on both ends. One disadvantage of only locking on one end is you cannot use a hold-down device that pushes down on the table because it lifts the fence. I know of no other drawbacks. But there are really no drawbacks of the BT3100 front and back system either. And I can use my wheeled hold-down anti-kick-back thingy.

I agree that used saws, including used contractors saws, are a reasonable way to go. I just think the BT3100 is a pretty good choice too - when the price is reasonable.

Jim