Freud Gone to the Dark Side?

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  • Freud Gone to the Dark Side?

    I was in HD recently and noticed a two-pack of Freud blades for around $30. I picked them up to look at them and noticed they didn't appear to be the same quality as my Freud blades. Rough around the brazing, etc. Turned the package over and noted "Made in China." Yesterday, also in HD, I saw a Freud Dado package for under $50 and again noted "Made in China." Although I have some decent tools made in China, most of the tools I see from China are not the same quality as I am used to. Has Freud gone down the tubes or are these blades just isolated examples?
    Richard

    EDIT on 10-05-09 12:23 PM
    These blades are marked "Avanti Pro" and Avanti" and do NOT have the name, Freud, on them anywhere. My crosscut blade is labeled "Avanti by Freud" and is in a package very similar to these new HD blades; thus, the reason for the wrong assumption on my part. To Freud, I apologize for this wrong assumption.

    To anyone who misconstrued my reference "to the dark side," I meant that I had noted Freud blades to be among the best made and these newer Avanti blades did not appear to meet the quality that I had become accustomed to from Freud. As I noted in my original post, I have some Chinese tools that have performed very well but many have not. The same can be said of many nationalities including the US. (My forty year old B&D drill still performs well but one I bought about ten years ago barely made it thru its one-year warranty.) My intention was to direct your attention to the quality of these particular blades.

    To anyone of Chinese descent, and to Loring in particular (whose posts I have come to greatly respect), I offer my apologies if my statements were taken to be racial or ethnic - that was certainly not my intention. Two of my best friends in undergraduate school were the Wong brothers who were two of the brightest, most cheerful, and hardest-working individuals I have ever known.

    IN SUMMARY, these were NOT Freud blades and I did not intend to start a political conversation with this thread. I will try to be more careful in the future. If anyone can tell me how to remove the original post I will do so. Thanks.
    Richard
    Last edited by phrog; 10-05-2009, 12:51 PM. Reason: Mistaken Statement
    Richard

  • #2
    It's not unusual for a high-end company to come out with a set of "consumer line" products that compete in a certain price point. In this day and age, companies are often forced to risk some reputation in exchange for some revenue.

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    • #3
      Considering that Freud sold its cutting tools division to Bosch it doesn't surprise me at all that they came out with a junk line under the Freud name. Maybe a line of cheap made in China router bits is next? I like their forstner bits, I hope they don't end up the same way. In defense of Bosch/Freud, I don't think that Bosch will cheapen up the Industrial line of Freud blades. At least I hope not.
      _________________________
      "Have a Great Day, unless you've made other plans"

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      • #4
        Freud is streamlining their lineup, and will no longer be marketing the Freud TK/Avanti series as of June 2009. You'll note that there's no "Freud" markings whatsoever on those packages. HD is selling "Avanti" and "Avanti Pro" blades that are not made by Freud, and appear to be dead ringers for the Oldham contractor and DeWalt construction series blades....neither is very suitable for fine woodworking IMHO.

        AFAIK, all Freud blades are still manufactured in Italy to the same standards we've come to expect.
        Happiness is sort of like wetting your pants....everyone can see it, but only you can feel the warmth.

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        • #5
          The dark side ? Don't let your fellow Harbor Frieght cronies see this post.

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          • #6
            Looks like it is time to do some searching is stocking up on the TK series blades.
            Don, aka Pappy,

            Wise men talk because they have something to say,
            Fools because they have to say something.
            Plato

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            • #7
              gentlemen, I know this is a little off topic, the topic being Freuds made in China, but the first few posts make the assumption that made in china=poor quality.

              It is possible to get very fine quality goods made in china. The issue is that the chinese will give you what you pay for and will not give you what you didn't pay for. With the westerners wanting cheapest possible goods and competitively bidding the chinese against each other then what we get is the result.

              I would dare say that there are some corruption and materials procurement issues, especially with shortcuts taken in food and drugs. But with industrial goods like tools, there are not really many government standards for fit and finish and six sigma and lot testing and all so these are not used.

              I'm an american born chinese of second or third generation in the states and FWIW I have no vested interest in the Chinese country other than my heritage, which is a minor consideration. But the reputation for shoddy goods is perhaps deserved, but doen't really have to be true. Like the post war japanese, they have a huge labor pool, some technical skill, and some pride. They could be a world class producer if they put their collective minds to it. Rigth now we're telling them, "Cheap" and that's what we are getting.
              Loring in Katy, TX USA
              If your only tool is a hammer, you tend to treat all problems as if they were nails.
              BT3 FAQ - https://www.sawdustzone.org/forum/di...sked-questions

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              • #8
                Loring has a point. Not too many years ago brands like Panasonic, Sony, and others from Japan were associated with goods that were cheap because they were inferior. Many of those same 'junk' brands are now considered state of the art.

                My statement was meant to imply that I like the Italian made TK series blades for durability, value, and the ultra thin kerf (especially on the 303). I would like to have a few in reserve rather than chance a decline in value in the Avanti blades or non-availability of the TK blades.
                Don, aka Pappy,

                Wise men talk because they have something to say,
                Fools because they have to say something.
                Plato

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by LCHIEN View Post
                  I'm an american born chinese of second or third generation in the states and FWIW I have no vested interest in the Chinese country other than my heritage, which is a minor consideration. But the reputation for shoddy goods is perhaps deserved, but doen't really have to be true. Like the post war japanese, they have a huge labor pool, some technical skill, and some pride. They could be a world class producer if they put their collective minds to it. Rigth now we're telling them, "Cheap" and that's what we are getting.
                  I understand what your saying, but the fact is, WE aren't asking for cheap, the US CEO's are asking for cheap while geting filthy rich abandoning this countries workers because we dare to ask for a actual liveing wage, then expect us to bail them out when what they created goes bad. Thats what burns me up.
                  Last edited by Charlie; 10-05-2009, 12:07 AM.

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                  • #10
                    Here we go again....

                    The fact of the matter is that WE ARE asking for cheap. Every time you go to the store you evaluate your choices and many times you pick the least expensive option all else being equal. I will even say that when there are some slight differences in quality many people will make the decision based on price. So in essence, yes, we are asking for cheap. It's not some huge scheme, a CEO's job is to make money for their shareholders. And if the public "wants" cheap, they give it to them while building shareholder equity. That's how it works. Now given there is plenty of CEO misdoings, but that hardly has anything to do with market forces. And as for sharing of the wealth, this country was initially a fight to survive kind of country. There were no safety nets in the beginning...no social programs, no aid. You worked or you died....(unless you had family or great neighbors, etc.) There was no sharing of the wealth like there is today! So many programs to help redistribute the wealth! Please... The craftsman of today has to be much savier than of old. He can't just hang a shingle and expect the world to find him. In many cases he has to readjust his skill set and what he is offering and at what price point to make a good living.
                    As for Freud blades, I really did enjoy the diablo line, which many pro's turned their nose up at, however, with my limited amateur experience I found them to be an exceptional value and they will be missed.
                    I think in straight lines, but dream in curves

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by chopnhack View Post
                      Here we go again....

                      The fact of the matter is that WE ARE asking for cheap. Every time you go to the store you evaluate your choices and many times you pick the least expensive option all else being equal. I will even say that when there are some slight differences in quality many people will make the decision based on price. So in essence, yes, we are asking for cheap. It's not some huge scheme, a CEO's job is to make money for their shareholders. And if the public "wants" cheap, they give it to them while building shareholder equity. That's how it works. Now given there is plenty of CEO misdoings, but that hardly has anything to do with market forces. And as for sharing of the wealth, this country was initially a fight to survive kind of country. There were no safety nets in the beginning...no social programs, no aid. You worked or you died....(unless you had family or great neighbors, etc.) There was no sharing of the wealth like there is today! So many programs to help redistribute the wealth! Please... The craftsman of today has to be much savier than of old. He can't just hang a shingle and expect the world to find him. In many cases he has to readjust his skill set and what he is offering and at what price point to make a good living.
                      As for Freud blades, I really did enjoy the diablo line, which many pro's turned their nose up at, however, with my limited amateur experience I found them to be an exceptional value and they will be missed.
                      Yeah, I don't think this is a place I want to be anymore.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Charlie View Post
                        The dark side ? Don't let your fellow Harbor Frieght cronies see this post.
                        Two HF slamming posts in a row. That's what you, my friend, will be remembered by in my mind.
                        Welcome to this forum AND my ignore list.
                        I haven't the time to see NO supportive help, only opinionated name bashing.
                        Do like you always do,,,,,,Get what you always get!!

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                        • #13
                          AFAIK, all the features you've enjoyed from the Freud TK/Avanti line will still be available in either the Industrial or Diablo series. There was previously a bit of overlap between the 3 lines.

                          To ensure this point doesn't get missed, the new Chinese-made Avanti and Avanti Pro at HD are not made by Freud, and do not mimic Freud's current Italian made quality standards. The new HD line are low grade cheap blades regardless of where they're made.
                          Happiness is sort of like wetting your pants....everyone can see it, but only you can feel the warmth.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by chopnhack View Post
                            The fact of the matter is that WE ARE asking for cheap. Every time you go to the store you evaluate your choices and many times you pick the least expensive option all else being equal. I will even say that when there are some slight differences in quality many people will make the decision based on price. So in essence, yes, we are asking for cheap.
                            Well, not exactly. Manufacturers in crowded marketplaces shipped production to China to be able to undercut the competition. When confronted with a choice, a consumer will often select the less expensive option.

                            But the distinction is critical. American consumers were consuming. We've led the world in consumption post WWII. "We" weren't asking for less expensive anything. It was a competitive advantage sought by manufacturers.

                            Originally posted by chopnhack View Post
                            It's not some huge scheme, a CEO's job is to make money for their shareholders. And if the public "wants" cheap, they give it to them while building shareholder equity. That's how it works. Now given there is plenty of CEO misdoings, but that hardly has anything to do with market forces.
                            On a microeconomic level, you're correct. Production was offshored in order to provide a competitive advantage. A lower production cost means a combination of a lower selling price and/or greater profits.

                            On a macroeconomic level, you run into problems.

                            Early in the offshoring game, before skilled labor erosion, some employees at GM used their income to purchase Delta Unisaws and the wares that go with them (U.S. made at the time). As time marches on, Delta may decide to offshore production of their Unisaw to gain a competitive advantage, and now employees that once manufactured Delta castings here in the U.S. can no longer afford GM cars, if any car at all.

                            The problem is, on a case by case basis, offshoring makes sense. If everyone off-shores, we're doomed.

                            Originally posted by chopnhack View Post
                            And as for sharing of the wealth, this country was initially a fight to survive kind of country. There were no safety nets in the beginning...no social programs, no aid. You worked or you died....(unless you had family or great neighbors, etc.) There was no sharing of the wealth like there is today! So many programs to help redistribute the wealth!
                            You have to remember that redistribution serves many roles, one of which is government stimulus. Without redistribution, our recessions would be much deeper and longer. The unemployed and those on government programs like SSD spend nearly 100% of those checks. They keep darker days at bay.

                            Originally posted by chopnhack View Post
                            Please... The craftsman of today has to be much savier than of old. He can't just hang a shingle and expect the world to find him. In many cases he has to readjust his skill set and what he is offering and at what price point to make a good living.

                            As for Freud blades, I really did enjoy the diablo line, which many pro's turned their nose up at, however, with my limited amateur experience I found them to be an exceptional value and they will be missed.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Knottscott View Post
                              To ensure this point doesn't get missed, the new Chinese-made Avanti and Avanti Pro at HD are not made by Freud, and do not mimic Freud's current Italian made quality standards. The new HD line are low grade cheap blades regardless of where they're made.
                              I took the OP at his word that he saw Freud badged blades at HD. If the blades he's talking about are in fact not badged with the Freud logo then this thread is misleading at best. No offense intended but if what Scott says is truly the case then this thread should be locked.
                              _________________________
                              "Have a Great Day, unless you've made other plans"

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