Freud Gone to the Dark Side?

[cgallery]

I took the OP at his word that he saw Freud badged blades at HD. If the blades he's talking about are in fact not badged with the Freud logo then this thread is misleading at best. No offense intended but if what Scott says is truly the case then this thread should be locked.

Even if the blades don't say "Freud" on the package, I don't think the OP was trying to intentionally mislead anyone. It seems like an honest mistake when a brand associated with one manufacturer is now associated with a big box.

If that is, indeed, the case, then leaving the thread unlocked will probably be wiser as more people will have a chance to read it and see Scott's information that the Avanti is no longer a Freud brand.

[woodturner]

If everyone off-shores, we're doomed.

Ah, but that assumes that manufacturing is important to the US economy. As we transform into a global economy, many economists assert that the US should not be manufacturing products - it's low-end commodity work better suited to helping our third world neighbors become second or first world nations.

These economist say that innovation is where we should focus - our culture support innovation, unlike most cultures worldwide. That's our inherent strength and where we can excel.

An example: do you cut your own grass? Why or why not? If you could work making $50 an hour, and the neighbor kid charges $5 to cut your grass, why would you ever cut your own grass? Doesn't make economic sense.

[sweensdv]

Even if the blades don't say "Freud" on the package, I don't think the OP was trying to intentionally mislead anyone. It seems like an honest mistake when a brand associated with one manufacturer is now associated with a big box.

I didn't imply that the OP was intentionally misleading anyone. What I did imply was that if a mistake was made it would serve no good purpose if this thread was allowed to NOT fall off the page.

[cgallery]

Ah, but that assumes that manufacturing is important to the US economy. As we transform into a global economy, many economists assert that the US should not be manufacturing products - it's low-end commodity work better suited to helping our third world neighbors become second or first world nations.

Economists make huge generalizations from wildly simplistic models that typically don't even include any sort of time component, and certainly don't accommodate issues such as the environment or human rights.

These economist say that innovation is where we should focus - our culture support innovation, unlike most cultures worldwide. That's our inherent strength and where we can excel.

Problem is, innovation hasn't been able to cover our loss in high-paying manufacturing jobs. If we account for our wild deficits, our standard of living has dropped appreciably since the 60's.

An example: do you cut your own grass? Why or why not? If you could work making $50 an hour, and the neighbor kid charges $5 to cut your grass, why would you ever cut your own grass? Doesn't make economic sense.

Again, I'm afraid that model is wildly simplistic. It assumes that I can make $50 hour every hour of every day that I want to work, and that I derive no pleasure from performing the task.

It also assumes one can "force" innovation. But the mind often doesn't work like that. Many solutions to problems with which I've been confronted have occurred to me while I've performed mindless activities like mowing the lawn, or painting the garage.

[phrog]

Freud is streamlining their lineup, and will no longer be marketing the Freud TK/Avanti series as of June 2009. You'll note that there's no "Freud" markings whatsoever on those packages. HD is selling "Avanti" and "Avanti Pro" blades that are not made by Freud, and appear to be dead ringers for the Oldham contractor and DeWalt construction series blades....neither is very suitable for fine woodworking IMHO.

AFAIK, all Freud blades are still manufactured in Italy to the same standards we've come to expect.

You are correct and I was wrong. Please see my EDIT on the first message. Thanks.
Richard

[dbhost]

I understand what your saying, but the fact is, WE aren't asking for cheap, the US CEO's are asking for cheap while geting filthy rich abandoning this countries workers because we dare to ask for a actual liveing wage, then expect us to bail them out when what they created goes bad. Thats what burns me up.

Truth be told, we ARE asking for cheap... We want the best possible quality for the least expense...

I don't know when the change with Freud took place, but I have an older Freud Diablo blade that was CLEARLY marked "Italy" when I bought it. (That mark has since rubbed off).

I suggest if you want to see how effective it is to try to compete for a U.S. living wage by selling manufactured goods to consumers, then make and sell your own stuff and see how well you do... There are loads of people overseas with a MUCH lower definition of a living wage. Shipping is still cheap en masse, so they can dump their products on our shores for far less than we can sell locally produced products. So OUR locally produced products had better offer SOMETHING considerably compelling to justify the difference in cost, which in itself is FREQUENTLY the biggest issue.

As far as the Freud consumer level blades production going to China is concerned, if they are of poor quality, and do a poor job, then Freud will suffer the financial consequences. If however they can maintain quality while offshoring prouduction to the Chinese, they will reap a big benefit.

It is a simple matter of the science of economics. If you sell what the consumer wants at a price they want to pay, you will get the sale, if you sell what they want out of the range of what the perceived value for that item is, you will not.

[phrog]

Anyone reading this thread, please be sure to read my EDIT in the very first post. There was misinformation posted by me in the original post. Thanks.
Richard
Trying to figure out how to remove this thread.

[phrog]

Okay, help. How do I remove or lock this thread? Thanks. Please see my EDIT in the very first message.
Richard

[Shep]

Economists make huge generalizations from wildly simplistic models that typically don't even include any sort of time component, and certainly don't accommodate issues such as the environment or human rights.



Problem is, innovation hasn't been able to cover our loss in high-paying manufacturing jobs. If we account for our wild deficits, our standard of living has dropped appreciably since the 60's.



Again, I'm afraid that model is wildly simplistic. It assumes that I can make $50 hour every hour of every day that I want to work, and that I derive no pleasure from performing the task.

It also assumes one can "force" innovation. But the mind often doesn't work like that. Many solutions to problems with which I've been confronted have occurred to me while I've performed mindless activities like mowing the lawn, or painting the garage.

Manufacturing comes back to comparative advantage, which basically says that countries will produce what they can produce effectively. Here's a simple example:

Two men live alone on an isolated island. To survive they must undertake a few basic economic activities like water carrying, fishing, cooking and shelter construction and maintenance. The first man is young, strong, and educated. He is also, faster, better, more productive at everything. He has an absolute advantage in all activities. The second man is old, weak, and uneducated. He has an absolute disadvantage in all economic activities. In some activities the difference between the two is great; in others it is small.

Despite the fact that the younger man has absolute advantage in all activities, it is not in the interest of either of them to work in isolation since they both can benefit from specialization and exchange. If the two men divide the work according to comparative advantage then the young man will specialize in tasks at which he is most productive, while the older man will concentrate on tasks where his productivity is only a little less than that of a young man. Such an arrangement will increase total production for a given amount of labor supplied by both men and it will make both of them richer.

This is what happens between countries.

[dbhost]

Okay, help. How do I remove or lock this thread? Thanks. Please see my EDIT in the very first message.
Richard

PM the mods... Sorry you edited your first message while I was composing mine.

[cgallery]

Manufacturing comes back to comparative advantage, which basically says that countries will produce what they can produce effectively.

...

This is what happens between countries.

Comparative advantage is a myth, we have little to no comparative advantage.

If you think we have any significant comparative advantages, just name them and I will gladly show you where you're wrong.

[Shep]

Everything we produce/manufacture, including services, are based on the laws of comparative advantage. There is no myth unless 90% of Economists are perpetuation a myth. You have a comparative advantage in what you do for a living comparred to what other skills you have. The same is true with what I do for a living. Just because we both are good at woodworking doesn't mean that we should replace woodworkers who are not as good as our secondary skill. Each produces what he is good at based on his skill set.

[cgallery]

Everything we produce/manufacture, including services, are based on the laws of comparative advantage. There is no myth unless 90% of Economists are perpetuation a myth. You have a comparative advantage in what you do for a living comparred to what other skills you have. The same is true with what I do for a living. Just because we both are good at woodworking doesn't mean that we should replace woodworkers who are not as good as our secondary skill. Each produces what he is good at based on his skill set.

The goods and services we produce here are based on comparative advantages we once had. We don't have them any longer. Those jobs are leaving, it just takes time.

An honest economist will admit that, during the short term (which is undefined, could be two years, it could be two generations, it could be more) we're playing a zero-sum game (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero-sum). What is produced in China or India won't be produced here.

Given the value in natural resources, and the fact that we're adding a nation with 1.3-billion people (China) and another nation with 1.1-billion people to the global pool of available labor, it really isn't rocket science that our already battered standard of living will suffer further.

[sweensdv]

gentlemen, I know this is a little off topic, the topic being Freuds made in China,.........

See what can happen when someone makes a post that is "a little off topic". One leads to another and another and another............

[phrog]

I'm not being given the option to delete this thread in the edit page. Since I was wrong in the post (It is Avanti being made in China and Freud's name not on it anywhere.) I think this thread should be deleted. If the mod or admin reads this please take the appropriate action. My apologies to everyone for ever posting this in the first place.
Richard