Decent, affordable planes?

[dbhost]

Okay, since I can't seem to weasel my coworker out of his grandfather's hand planes. (Sentimental reasons, he's not a woodworker), I am getting the itch for hand planes...

What can you guys suggest I look for in either new, or perhaps pawn shop / Craigslist etc... used planes? I am not looking for ~$250.00 Veritas planes (although those do look quite nice), but rather something that is more bang for the buck oriented... Now of course if I come across a nice Veritas smoothing plane for $25.00 somewhere...

[pelligrini]

Ebay has quite a few always listed, I've been looking at them more and more.

The new Woodriver ones from Woodcraft seem to be pretty good. I really like my #6 I got recently. http://www.bt3central.com/showthread.php?t=45507

I don't really do garage sales or pawnshops much. The garage sales seem to be a pretty good source. I don't see very many listed on our craigslist specifically.

[Len]

You could find yourself a hunk of maple or beech, get a L-N blade, and make your own.

Len

[LarryG]

Stay away from hand planes at all costs -- because if you don't, "cost" is exactly what they are going to do to you. There is no slope more slippery than the purchase of one's first hand plane.

But if you insist ... look primarily for old, pre-war Stanleys. Pre-war might mean WWII but it might mean WWI, as well. There are more Stanleys out there than anything else and that makes the hunt easier and the prices more affordable. Millers Falls, Record, and Union are all good brands, too. The first is relatively easy to come by; the last two are not exactly rare but not as plentiful as Stanley and MF. It's especially easy to find very nice, very affordable examples of these two brands from the mid-40s to mid-60s era, during which the quality remained pretty good.

I'd avoid pawn shops as they will usually offer little beyond the more recent junk. As mentioned, eBay is one good source if you know what you're looking for. Better yet is a reputable used tool dealer that you like and trust. You may have to pay a little more, but a good dealer will shoot straight with you and work with you to find a plane that fits your needs and budget. (In time they will also assist you in your journey down still other slippery slopes you've not yet considered: chisels, braces, eggbeater drills, tool handles, saws ...)

For a good overview of what the various bench plane sizes do and the order in which to build your collection, read this.

[phrog]

Here's a good source for info about Stanley planes: http://www.supertool.com/StanleyBG/stan0a.html
If the link fails google Patrick's Blood and Gore.
Ebay has a zillion pages of planes for sell. Unfortunately, I've never been able to snag one. Guess I'll be bidding against you now. Even if you don't bid on any, you can get a good idea of what's out there by looking on eBay.
Richard

Edit: I've bought a couple at antique malls. I agree with Larry about brands. A couple more are Sargent and Fulton.

[dbhost]

Good ideas. And I never even considered looking at Woodcraft as they tend to be more expensive than Rockler on tools...

But they had something that caught my eye, for right or wrong...

Has anyone here had any experiences with GrÖz (sorry couldn't figure out how to do the o umlaut in lower case...) planes? Good or bad... please let me know what your experience with them has been...

I have had a GrÖz vise in the past and thought it was quite well made, but a vise is a rather crudely made tool compared to a plane...

[MikeMcCoy]

I had a couple of the Groz several years ago and although they get a lot of bad reports on the forums, it's usually from people who haven't had one that was well tuned. Besides ebay, there are several members over at Woodnet that I have had some very satisfied dealings with for some very well tuned Bailey planes.

[pelligrini]

I picked up a Groz set from Woodcraft last year. A low angle block plane and a #4. The block plane is OK, still have to fuss with it often. I haven't been able to get the #4 to work properly yet. I wouldn't pay any money for one again.

The Woodrivers run more than the Groz, but they're much higher quality. Not quite as nice as a Lie-Neilson, but they're about a 1/3 of the price too.

[dbhost]

I picked up a Groz set from Woodcraft last year. A low angle block plane and a #4. The block plane is OK, still have to fuss with it often. I haven't been able to get the #4 to work properly yet. I wouldn't pay any money for one again.

The Woodrivers run more than the Groz, but they're much higher quality. Not quite as nice as a Lie-Neilson, but they're about a 1/3 of the price too.

Gotcha...

Will have to get in to Woodcraft to take a look at them...

[Uncle Cracker]

I had a couple of the Groz several years ago and although they get a lot of bad reports on the forums, it's usually from people who haven't had one that was well tuned. Besides ebay, there are several members over at Woodnet that I have had some very satisfied dealings with for some very well tuned Bailey planes.

I have a Groz from Woodcraft. I keep it tuned and scary sharp, and it has served me well. I also have Stanleys, Lee Valleys, and one incredible Lie-Nielsen.

[scmhogg]

Here is my experience with Groz. As an update, it has continued to work well two years down the road. I have only had to hone the iron once since then.

http://www.bt3central.com/showthread...highlight=groz

Steve

[jziegler]

I took a look at the Woodriver planes last time I was in, and talked to the employee who taught the hand tool class I took there. They look decent, and won't need as much work as a Groz plane, but won't be ready out of the box like a LN or LV. Probably one of the best value planes out there new. Also check antique stores. I got a couple planes for a very reasonable price at one near me. The selection will be pretty limited though. You will probably see at least 4 or 5 jack planes (Stanley #5 or equiv.) for each other type that you see.

Jim

[Knottscott]

I can't help but think that you'll get the most for you money from the older Bailey, Bedrock, Millers Falls, Record, Sargent, or Union planes. Some of them are rediculously cheap, and some are in incredible condition. Compared to the less expensive newer planes made in India or China, I'm certain the metallurgy and machining is far superior on the older planes...not to mention the nostalgia and history with each one. With an older plane the odds are good that someone has already fettled it...they usually only need a little cleaning and sharpening, and you're good to go. Most of my planes have come from Ebay or some of the seasoned veterans on other forums who buy, tune, and resell the older planes. Every time I handle one, I wonder about it's history, and marvel over the craftsmanship.

Here's a Millers Falls 8 (#3 equiv), Fulton #3, and a very old Record 03 that were all ~ $15 each.


A $50 Record 05-1/2 with a Lee Valley blade:


And how can you say "no" to a $30 Bailey #5-1/4 Type 13 made in 1928 in favor of a new plane made in China?

[phrog]

I can't help but think that you'll get the most for you money from the older Bailey, Bedrock, Millers Falls, Record, Sargent, or Union planes. Some of them are rediculously cheap, and some are in incredible condition. Compared to the less expensive newer planes made in India or China, I'm certain the metallurgy and machining is far superior on the older planes...not to mention the nostalgia and history with each one. With an older plane the odds are good that someone has already fettled it...they usually only need a little cleaning and sharpening, and you're good to go. Most of my planes have come from Ebay or some of the seasoned veterans on other forums who buy, tune, and resell the older planes. Every time I handle one, I wonder about it's history, and marvel over the craftsmanship.

Here's a Millers Falls 8 (#3 equiv), Fulton #3, and a very old Record 03 that were all ~ $15 each.


A $50 Record 05-1/2 with a Lee Valley blade:


And how can you say "no" to a $30 Bailey #5-1/4 Type 13 made in 1928 in favor of a new plane made in China?

Some really beautiful planes. Buying these old planes over the new Chinese or Indian planes is kinda like getting a dog from the pound. There are some real bargains there that will serve you well. Personally, I prefer the older planes. They have the experience that I don't - maybe they can help me along.
Richard
Edit: Sorry, didn't mean to reshow all your photos. One day I will learn this system.

[Knottscott]

One aspect of buying the older planes that I forgot to mention, is that they're worth roughly what you paid for them. Should you decide to resell them later, depending on what you paid, the "going rate" will be fairly stable...especially compared to a new plane.