Biscuit Joiner

[rh111]

Been thinking for a while that I "need" one, but have no experience with them. I have been at the old school of a little glue and brads, but want to step up my level of "expertise". What info can a person pass along about biscuit joiners. I am aware of how they work, etc, but what do the excel at, and what are they terrible for. I know that if I get one, it will be the PC as everyone that I have talked to in the last month says it is the best option for the money.

Thank you in advance for your assistance.

[eddy merckx]

Hi

I have the PC. It is excellent. It's hard to beat biscuits for joining plywood and melamine for cabinets. The biscuits hold everything in place so you can reinforce with screws. Biscuits are also great for attaching trim where you don't want to see nail holes, etc. The PC comes with a little blade for FF biscuits for attaching face frames to cabinets. They work very well. I don't think they're a great alternative for joinery where strength is needed as the actual biscuits don't extend very far into the joint. I probably wouldn't build a table with biscuited joints, for instance.

Hope that answers your questions
Eddy

[LCHIEN]

they're an very good joinery tool for edge joining.
edge to edge as well as edge to face.
Quick, accurate, forgiving in one direction (usually you can make small adjustments ~1/8" along the direction of the biscuit, you can't do this with dowels), and no-show (unlike pocket screws).

I've read that ones with good alignment fences can be used to make 45 degree and other alignments, but I haven't tried that yet.

[pacwind3]

Last year and the year prior I worked for a furniture building company. We built furniture and display fixtures for high end golf pro shops. We used the bisuit joiner quite a bit. We had both the PC and the Dewalt. Personally I was partial to the Dewalt, but that's only because I have one at home.
When we attached table skirts to legs, we used a hybrid method of biscuits and pocket holes, pockets on the inside of course. The biscuits helped with alignment and strength, the pocket screws helped with strength and NO clamp time.
It's my standard method for attachment now.

[poolhound]

I have the PC and its a great tool. Biscuits are not a panacea joint but as others have said they are great for edging. I have also used them to reinformce miters and build face frames where I would rather not use pocket screws. One of the benefits is that the will create an automatic registration so it really helps with alignment. Although long grain to long grain joints dont really need any help with strength using biscuits is very useful to keep everything level. You can also use them for right angle joints e.g. instead of a dado for joining panels but I have not done this.

FYI on the LG/LG glue up point I was clearing up this weekend and managed to fill a large bag (think DC) with scraps for the burn pile. I came across some strips (3" by 20"ish) that were from trims of a glued up panel of walnut. I place them across a step and stamped on them to get to a more manageable size. They all broke with relative ease but on no occasion did the glue joints fail it was always the wood the broke!!

[JimD]

I have used them in place of mortise and tenon on table skirts and on interior doors. The doors were still OK when we moved from that house but the table legs are starting to come a little loose from the skirts. I also used them instead of mortise and tenon joints in some chairs. They are doing OK after several years use.

I used biscuits recently to align solid oak edging on some panels of 3/4 oak plywood. I used some more to align the 5/4 oak pieces I glued up to make a 35x48 kitchen table for my son. I put them about every 6 inches for these applications. I have also used them to reinforce miter joints when the pieces were big enough. I have no concern with biscuits in these applications - which for me would justify a joiner.

I have a dedicated mortiser now so I do traditional mortise and tenon joints instead of substituting biscuits and I like the long term longevity chances much better. Biscuits are great for aligning boards, however, and adding a bit of strength to the joint. I think a better subsitute for traditional mortise and tenon for chairs and tables is a loose mortise and tenon. These require only a plunge router.

Jim

[cabinetman]

I have a DeWalt and only use biscuits as a last resort for joinery. The fact that the dry biscuit slips into the biscuit mortise allows enough movement for misalignment. There has to be a slip allowance for the glue. If I use them, I also have ready clamps and cauls. On long or multiple glue up procedures, getting all of them in place can be a hassle with getting the glue and biscuits where it's supposed to go. Here in South Florida, I get a wide variance in the biscuit size with the varied humidity changes that can occur in a day.

I only use them for a restraint to keep items from pulling apart, nothing structural. I would use splines in place of biscuits. There's more of a selection for the spline and size. As for plunging the mortise, if you don't have a plunge router, they can be done with just tipping a fixed base. Slotting cutters can also be used. For square blunt end mortises (blind splines), a slot cutter can be used and then chisel out the ramps (for edge mortises). For face mortises, a straight bit can be used, and the end of the spline can be shaped. This is how I did them before there were plunge bases.
.

[AusRob]

You could always go for the Festool Domino. Loose tenon joinery. Stronger than biscuits, easier than dowels. A few extra bucks first up, but once you've used one there's no going back. You can make your own dominoes very easily, so you're not really tied to their product. You can make tenons up to 32 x 58 x 10 mm out of any timber you want. Joint strength is very good. You can also create mortises that give slack so you can fine tune your fit.

As I say, extra bucks, but great joinery.

Regards,

Rob

[JimD]

My biscuits have been sitting around a long time but they fit tightly into the slots. I have to tap them in with a mallet. They thus force good alignment. Maybe my biscuits have swollen a little or maybe the bit in my Skil joiner is a little on the small side.

Jim

[LarryG]

My biscuits have been sitting around a long time but they fit tightly into the slots. I have to tap them in with a mallet. They thus force good alignment.

This matches my experience exactly. Biscuits are in effect small loose tenons, so they do add SOME strength, but they are primarily an alignment aid during the glue-up. As Loring said, they're forgiving in one direction (i.e., parallel to their length) but in the other direction, they're as accurate as any other joinery method once you understand how they work and learn how to use them.

An accurate plate joiner that positions the slot consistently is a must, however. I have the P-C 557, which in comparison tests usually either matches or even beats the high-buck Lamello.

I have found that you occasionally find a biscuit that's a bit too thin, due to shrinkage or manufacturing error. Those I either use in some non-critical location, or toss into the trash.

[Uncle Cracker]

I use PC-branded biscuits when I do biscuit joinery. They are pretty snug in the slots, and are textured on the surface, which allows surface for glue retention despite the snugness, so I haven't noticed a lot of free play, nor any glue starvation. YMMV, but I have had good luck.

[os1kne]

I also use PC brand biscuits when I use biscuits, which isn't very often - but sometimes the biscuit joiner is indispensible. To prevent the biscuits from swelling too much with humidity, I put a couple of dessicant packs in with the biscuits. I get the dessicant packs from pill bottles, about 1/2 the size of a sugar package.

[RayintheUK]

I've always kept my (woodworking - compressed beech) biscuits in Tupperware-type containers - no problems with expansion so far!

Ray.

[Bill in Buena Park]

Some might ask why I haven't upgraded yet - but I've owned my Ryobi JM80 buscuit joiner for close to 10 years now (and still using the same blade), and it has provided a very satisfactory means of joining for me. I use biscuits for alignment and reinforcement (but not extreme load-bearing) - I just use a #20 biscuit every 3.5 to 4in on center the entire length of the joint.

I've also tried these HF "bargain biscuits" (http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...ber=95222)with surprising good results - they occasionally go on sale for around $3, IIRC. Thicknessing uniformity in their pressing is not entirely consistent, with some being slightly thicker than others, but not so bad that they couldn't be tapped into place with mallot (or piece of scrap wood.)

In fact, I used biscuits to construct the head- and foot-boards of a bunk-bed set I made for my kids. They were simple - 2x6 rails and stiles (2 vertical rails, with the stiles butt-joined in between, one at the top, the other about center of the rails), but I used 4 biscuits per joint, in side by side sets, one set above the other (like the 4 spots on dice). They were in use 5 years before we got them bigger beds, but I still have them, and they're still not coming apart any time soon.

[RayintheUK]

Did you get my PM, rh111?

Ray