Spend My Money!!!

[mdutch]

Well the sad news is my Momma died. The good news is, it was time, and ended a lot of suffering for her and everyone around. All that being said, after the estate and everyone's needs have been met, there's a little of my Dad's money left for me to put my woodshop in order and carry on his hobby. My interests run to milling of native woods, esp. working with mesquite (which is in narrow widths) and working in box and small cabinet construction.

My "shop" is really roll-out garage space I use after removing the cars, so everything I use is on wheels and "parks" in an 8 x 14 side alcove that I'm building out in cabinets like some crazed life-sized Tetris game.

I already have a nice BT3000 on std. factory legs, am going to build a mobile base with extension arms and a precision router lift as a main workpiece. In addition, a torsion-box work-table. But there'a a couple big ticket items I'd like advice on. (*btw everything is already pre-wired and insulated, did that last winter. DC is in the works already) Obviously I'm a weekend warrior here, but I do want to get serious about my ability to work more accurately and I want to learn more about resawing and squaring my lumber.

Budget for this is about 2k. I'm looking at Grizzly because of the high marks it's gotten here.

1. Bandsaw: I assume Grizzly 14" with the 6" extension block for 12" tall resaw capacity.
But the G0555? Or the G0555X?

2. A jointer, again Grizzly, but heck, should I spend more on a better 6" jointer or spring for an 8", then again, which model? I'm pretty much out of my depth here.

3. Planer. Always wanted one, but figured it an expensive wood-chipper until I owned a jointer. I've heard good marks on the G505 and don't think I want to devote large footprints to a permanant planer installation. Votes for or against? Better brands?

Though I've put forth a few ideas here, I'm really open to any suggestions. Go for it guys, give me your best shot.

[LCHIEN]

welcome back dutchman, hadn't seen your name in quite a while.
Sorry about your mother,
so you have your inheritance and a soon to be received gov't check I assume?

I would say depends upon how fast you want to acquire these things.

My personal opinion is that the planers and jointers there are no brand head and shoulders above the other so after meeting a few essential requirements you can go used and or shop for the lowest price. And save a bundle if you are patient. I think it can be both financially rewarding and personaly satisfying to pick up these used gems. Craigs list and eBay and local classifieds can be your friend. Do some on-line surfing and get to know whats current and desirable.

Jointer any name brand like Jet, delta, ridgid, grizz, the big sears, 6" with 45-48" beds.
Planer, any 12+" ridgid, delta, Dewalt, Makita with cutterhead locks will do a good job

Then get the grizzly G0555 or 0555x you like or maybe the 17" Rikon bandsaw.

[Russianwolf]

I know you said you're budget was $2k but if I were in that range already and looking at what you are looking for, I'd give serious consideration to one of these.

http://www.grizzly.com/products/12-J...tterhead/G0634

Just realized I linked to the more expensive one.

http://www.grizzly.com/products/12-Jointer-Planer/G0633 if you think the spiral cutter is too much.

[poolhound]

I was typing a virtually identical reply to loring's when I saw it come in so I would say

WHAT HE SAYS!!

Keep an eye on your local CL and if its anything like mine there are usually jointers and planers galore. Used jointers are usually in the $200-$300 range depending on what they are. Planers $100-$200. I got a really nice Ridgid TP1300 hardly used for $150 with 2 sets of blades.

I was looking seriously at the Griz 555X or the rikon but last week got a heck of a deal on the Powermatic so I now own that. the 555x is a bit more expensive than the plain 555 but once you account for the upgrades IMHO it was worth it - you only buy one once.

1.5 vs 1 hp motor
bigger table
better fence with included resaw fence ($85 to add to the 555)
Light
Closed base


FYI the Rikon just went up in price I think most places are now selling for around $845. I looked at one last week its a nice looking saw also. I think you would be happy with either.

[crokett]

I'd look on craigslist too. Then you have money to spend on other stuff. My experience watching the ads is those are two of the most common tools to find. Last year I got a nearly-new6" jointer for less than 200. He wanted 200 but 2 knobs were missing.

[jackellis]

Another vote for recycling. I have a AP1300 (Ryobi) bought new, the Delta 360 planer bought used for $150, and a Ridgid 14" bandsaw with riser and a bigger motor bought used. Total cost for all was about $750.

You can spend the savings on high quality bandsaw blades.

[mdutch]

Well RussianWolf, I sure appreciate the "champagne" but my 2k is "total" and I'll have to fish on CL if I'm going for the whole 12 inches! Meantime, I'm pretty sold on the 555x as a bandsaw, and figure God made the Gentiles because Somebody had to pay Retail, right?

Now I'm back on my heels about dust collection. First off, I'm going to use a JDS-750-ER, which got top marks for its washable pre-filter and high effeciency bag. So that's my backup for secondary air cleaning. But for main DC, where do we start? (Note: I definitely want a cyclone tower -- I have separation anxiety

For years I've planned to build the Wood Mag "Dust Defying Dust Collector" using the PennState DC3-CS motor (which was a 760, now they have a beefed-up DC3 that's an 850cfm). Delivered, the motor is $231 plus a sheet of MDF, same in sheet metal, plus a galvanized garbage can, a dozen 12 x 18 furnace filters, and a lot of labor. Figuring factory cyclone plus matched motor and warranty, should I just bite the bullet and buy a DC since everything's made in China this year and it will all burn out in 24 months? LOL
Oneida Dust-Gorilla? Penn-State Cyclones? What do we like for factory systems and why?

[Knottscott]

My shop is largely equipped due a similar situation when my Dad lost his battle with cancer. He got me started in wwing posthumously, and I'm sure he'd be thrilled....my Mom's still alive and I know she's happy with the expenditure. Lots of family heirlooms get made from those tools, and it keeps me home and out of trouble!

I like all your picks except for the G0505. AFAIK, that unit does not have a cutterhead lock and will snipe much more than a machine that does. Seems to be a good place to upgrade to something like a DeWalt 734, DW735, Delta TP400, Delta 22-580, Ridgid, or Makita.

How are you set for router(s) and saw blades?

[drumpriest]

For 2k$ eh? I would spring for the 8" rointer, it'll be your limiting factor. that's around 700$ from Griz, you can get a good 13" planer in either the ridgid or the dewalt, that's 300-500$, then you have a sizable chunk of change left for the bandsaw of your choice. Balance cut capacity with hp. A 1 hp 12" resaw isn't going to do you justice. At least 1 1/2 hp, 2 hp if you can find one cheap enough. 2hp is going to require 220v though. The G0513 looks good for the $$$ as well.

[poolhound]

Well RussianWolf, I sure appreciate the "champagne" but my 2k is "total" and I'll have to fish on CL if I'm going for the whole 12 inches! Meantime, I'm pretty sold on the 555x as a bandsaw, and figure God made the Gentiles because Somebody had to pay Retail, right?

Now I'm back on my heels about dust collection. First off, I'm going to use a JDS-750-ER, which got top marks for its washable pre-filter and high effeciency bag. So that's my backup for secondary air cleaning. But for main DC, where do we start? (Note: I definitely want a cyclone tower -- I have separation anxiety

For years I've planned to build the Wood Mag "Dust Defying Dust Collector" using the PennState DC3-CS motor (which was a 760, now they have a beefed-up DC3 that's an 850cfm). Delivered, the motor is $231 plus a sheet of MDF, same in sheet metal, plus a galvanized garbage can, a dozen 12 x 18 furnace filters, and a lot of labor. Figuring factory cyclone plus matched motor and warranty, should I just bite the bullet and buy a DC since everything's made in China this year and it will all burn out in 24 months? LOL
Oneida Dust-Gorilla? Penn-State Cyclones? What do we like for factory systems and why?

I have the delta 760 and am very happy with it (plastic collection bag, 1 micron filer and 1200cfm), unless you absolutley have to have a cyclone then I would reccomend it. If the reason for the cyclone is for ease of emptying then get a DC with plastic bottom bags - easy and clean disposal and it makes the DC more efficient.

Not sure if you are planning on ducting but either way go for as much CFM and SP as you can. 850CFM wont cut it in a ducted network unless its very short or has great SP specs.

[mdutch]

Not sure if you are planning on ducting but either way go for as much CFM and SP as you can. 850CFM wont cut it in a ducted network unless its very short or has great SP specs.

Small footprint roll-around shop, nothing more than 10' from the DC, so flex works fine for me. I may just build their plan due to footprint size and overall price.

How are you set for router(s) and saw blades?

I've got the 1617 and it's been a real joy. Here's my first "big" project with it and the BT3K in tandem. Tried loose tenon jointery on this Western Red Cedar & Gorilla Glue gate last year. Borrowed a friend's shop to true one face and planed the stock to get the "hair" off and a consistent thickness, then came home to rip, glue-up, and do some serious plunge cuts. The bars are 1/2" black iron with the paint removed for rusted patina, and set in silicone. (Man, I had some headaches figuring the hole depth in the curved top stock, even when it was still a square glue-up!) Due to the tongue & groove panel at the bottom needing "give" in the weathering, the glue-up and assembly clamping was a one-shot affair, and I was s-l-o-w. Think I invented some new curse words and decided this kind of thing will be a lot easier when I don't have to make do on saw-horses and plywood work surfaces! But thanks to ever-expanding Gorilla Glue, it came out true and square, and after a year of Texas sun and frog-strangler rainstorms is still closing with a finger-touch. The wife is happy, so I am ready to move on to burl-front empire cabinetry! LMAO.

[Hoover]

So far, you have gotten some very good advice. On the jointer, go for a 8" model and you will be glad you did. As far as a planer goes, get one that has cutterhead locks. It cuts down the amount of snipe. Good luck with your purchases. Your momma would be proud of you.

[ksum]

If you are thinking about a cyclone, I would seriously consider the Clear Vue models. http://www.clearvuecyclones.com/index.htm Then again, any good cyclone may blow your budget. If it is close, put the money into some sort of high intrest account for a while until it bocomes enough. If you want to build one yourself, check out Bill Pentz's site for plans. The site is blocked here at work, but you can get to it from this page billpentz.com/woodworking/cyclone/index.cfm Some of his stuff may be overkill, as he seems to try for a dust free environment, but I wish I had gone for this option myself.

I do not normally recommend a shop vac for dust collection. I was there, with a 5 gallon separator that I converted to 10 gallons, and still spent too much time emptying the thing. But I will say that a shop vac is a necessary and valuble tool for cleanup, and still use it to connect to a sander. That said, think about using a shop vac while you save the money for whatever dust collector you end up getting. Just make sure you end up with a collector that has enough power. So I would not recommend a lower power DC.

I know you think a roll around will be good, and you can manually connect to your machines, but milling lumber will end up being a chore. You will go from a jointer to a planer and then to the saw, and you will end up with hoses and cords at your feet. (Voice of experience, and using the shop vac recommendation above will reinforce it with you.) It doens't take much to hard pipe your system, and opening/closing 2 gates becomes a lot easier. Plus, with a permanent hook-up, you won't get frustrated because the quick connector just popped off your tool. I am in a 1 car garage and have short runs. I used 6" pvc for my runs, am hooked up to a band saw, table saw, router table, jointer, and planer. I have spent maybe an extra $200 for all the piping, including flex to allow the tools to each move at least half the width of my garage. The thing is, I didn't do it all at once. I located the tools, then made a layout, and started adding pipe as I needed it. Spreading that cost out over about 6 months made it monthly pocket money. Admittedly I got the 6" PVC for a song ($5 for 5 3' lengths) but if you look around, you may be able to as well. Try construction companies for cut-offs.

I will agree on the thickness planers and cutter head lock to limit/eliminate snipe. I have the Delta 22-580 planer. Replaced an older model without the lock, and also got knives that are much easier to change. Spend a little extra on one of these with the self aligning knoves and the locking cutter.

Karl

[mdutch]

Thanks guys, this is a wealth of knowledge. I bow to the superior intellect. One and all.

Thanks Karl, had run across BillPenz and the Clearvue guy a few years back. And yes, I'm currently "making do" with the shop-vac!

"Roll around" referred to the entire shop, as all the big stuff pulls of its "parking spaces" into pre-determined footprints once the cars are out so there's actually room to work. So I could pipe the thing since it does have a "floorplan" when in use.

Though you did say you hardpiped your system with 6" pvc, I'm curious what's your DC's power in CFM? Seemed like poolhound was concerned that the 850cfm of the unit I was considering wasn't going to cut it in a piped system.

[poolhound]

My shop (garage) is exactly the same as yours. everything is "roll around" and lives against the walls when not in use.

My comments about ducted systems relate to significant pipework from a DC kept away in a corner where you may have to run along both walls to get to the opposite side. In my garage that would mean over 50ft which is way to much. If you keep the pipes short it could work. SO far I have not had a problem using a single 10' hose and I dont usually have to move the DC too far to reach each tool.

For most larger (dust and chip heavy) tools you need to maintain at least 400-500cfm for effective dust collection. An 850cfm DC probably wont ever reach that max and the loses from SP from long pipe runs will undoubtedly make the CFM drop below the necessary levels. There are some articles and SP/CFM worksheets online that you can use o figure all this out. I will see if I can find you a link.