Dust Collection Questions

[dkerfoot]

The important thing, IMO, is to make a strong step forward and then keep going in that direction.

That pretty well sums up my thoughts. I am leaning towards the HF with the cannister purchased soon afterward.

I'll need to cut a hole through the wall to the storage area. I'd like to run a 5" header pipe with two or three hose drops to start with. Still studying up on how to make it as efficient as possible. Not yet sure how I can run a 5" pipe from the collector up to the overhead without using a near 90 degree bend.

With my tiny shop, I need to be able to roll tools out to the center frequently, so I will do a lot of dis-/connecting. The good side of it is that the pipe runs will be very short.

I do have a Shark Guard.

[Garasaki]

What do you guys think? Overkill? Still not good enough?

I think it's literally impossible to overkill dust collection.

The ideas suggested above are good - get started with a DC unit that you won't out grow. Add stuff as you go, a cyclone, plumbing, air cleaner, etc.

Eventually you'll have a nice satisfactory solution, and in the meantime, your making the problem better...

Don't take Bill's word as gospel - he likes to throw an overwhelming amount of information out there, but the fact is he is a person just like you and me. Just because he says something, does NOT make it fact.

[Hoover]

If you can't afford a dust collector with a canister, buy either a Penn State or the HF model, buy a 1 micron bag for now, and when you can afford a canister go the Wynn model later. Also having a fan pulling air and dust away from your work area is better than nothing. Good luck and stay healthy.

[LCHIEN]

...I'll need to cut a hole through the wall to the storage area. I'd like to run a 5" header pipe with two or three hose drops to start with. Still studying up on how to make it as efficient as possible. Not yet sure how I can run a 5" pipe from the collector up to the overhead without using a near 90 degree bend.

....

Don't forget, if you suck air from another room, the air has to be both made up somehow from where you sucked it and gotten rid of in the room where the DC is. There will be 1000 cu ft of air going from the storage area back to the shop, SOMEWAY or ANOTHER.
If in the same room its lossless so any loss or friction going back across rooms will add to the piping loss. A doorway (open!) sized hole to the adjoining room will probably be adequate. If the rooms are adjacent but the doors are to the outside at opposite ends of the building... too far. Also any Airconditioned or heated air you can kiss goodbye if the return path is through the outdoors..

[LinuxRandal]

Don't forget, if you suck air from another room, the air has to be both made up somehow from where you sucked it and gotten rid of in the room where the DC is. There will be 1000 cu ft of air going from the storage area back to the shop, SOMEWAY or ANOTHER.
If in the same room its lossless so any loss or friction going back across rooms will add to the piping loss. A doorway (open!) sized hole to the adjoining room will probably be adequate. If the rooms are adjacent but the doors are to the outside at opposite ends of the building... too far. Also any Airconditioned or heated air you can kiss goodbye if the return path is through the outdoors..

In this case, you could build it into a closet, in your shop. Use a louvered door, and tape/mount some furnace filters to the back of it. This way you get air movement, some extra dust protection, access to the bag, and if you sell the house, there is a closet down there (in case they are wanting to finish the basement).

[eezlock]

dust collection

Doug, if you have a friend in the HVAC business, check with them. They might have an old model furnace blower assembly with a 110 v motor that they would sell for scrap price. If you get one, build an enclosure around it out of plywood, put air filters on each of the intake sides, plug it in and should be good to go. I have one that I built a couple of years ago, like I described and mounted it overhead and cut a hole in the shop wall to the outside to vent out the air. I covered the exhaust side on the outside of the building with a small grill to keep out the bugs, birds or other small vamits
from getting into the building thru the fan opening....it works well and really cheap too! eezlock

[dkerfoot]

Thanks for all the tips guys. Some very good points.

To describe the situation, I have a tiny basement shop - about 100 sq feet. Adjacent to it is a long, 4' wide storage area. The wall between is cinderblock. My plan is to put the DC in the storage area. I haven't decided if I want to punch through the cinderblock down low or go through the joist up above. I am leaning towards having the header come straight through at the height of the DC inlet and having the return up high through the joists.

Loring - I was thinking about just having a 5" return duct the same size as the header pipe. Since you are suggesting a doorway sized return, I am beginning to suspect a 5" opening may be less than ideal! Since the return will only be about 6" deep, how big would it have to be? How about if in addition to a 5" hole, I added the open doors around the basement (about a 50 ft round trip I'd estimate)

9 months out of the year, I'll just open the window in the storage room - there is no need to air condition my basement in the summer.

This whole discussion makes me remember my days on the submarine when we'd fire training torpedoes. They use an air turbine to propel them out of the tube and you'd feel the air rush through the whole boat. If you happened to be going through the 3' wide watertight door to the torpedo room, it would darn near send you rolling.

Eezlock - I appreciate the suggestion, and if I still lived in South Carolina, I'd probably take it. Perhaps a little less practical here in Michigan for the next few months. Although the bugs, birds and woodland critters wouldn't be a problem!

Hoover - I can afford the HF with a cannister. In fact, if you have to buy an aftermarket filter, the Wynn cannisters don't seem any (or barely) more expensive than the 1 micron bags.

I really wish the Delta 50-760 was still $290 like I see on old articles/reviews. The cheapest I have seen it anywhere is $350 shipped.

[LCHIEN]

...Loring - I was thinking about just having a 5" return duct the same size as the header pipe. Since you are suggesting a doorway sized return, I am beginning to suspect a 5" opening may be less than ideal! Since the return will only be about 6" deep, how big would it have to be? How about if in addition to a 5" hole, I added the open doors around the basement (about a 50 ft round trip I'd estimate)

...

consider the normal scenario where a DC is next to the machine its cleaning and a short hose. The hose connection and the filter is the primary loss, the return loss from the filter back thru the machine is relatively low loss, there's no walls etc. for the air to drag on or small openeing through which to push it.

So if you now introduce a return duct, the idea is to make it big enough to have no impact... generally to an engineer that means 10-100 times smaller loss than the losses you compare to, e.g. the 5" hose. That's why I tossed out a door sized opening. Thus that's an ideal case, a compromise would be to accept a smaller return air path and more restriction - it just adds to the load your DC must handle.

[dkerfoot]

I ordered the HF 2HP Dust Collector today. Debated using 15% coupon at the store, but they are charging $10 more and since it is 30 minute drive to pick up a 145 lb box, it seemed like a wash. Especially when I realized the website wasn't going to charge me the 6% Michigan sales tax.

I have also decided to not put holes through my wall just yet. There is a suitable area for me to keep the DC in the laundry room, just across from my shop. I've decided to store it there and roll it over and feed the hoses through the shop door for now.

Thanks for all the great input. It is really helpful to be able to float ideas here before actually acting on them.

[Garasaki]

I can't believe they only charge 12 bucks to ship that thing!!

I'm in the same boat as you - half hour drive to pick up a box that I doubt fits in my car. Almost seems silly not to have em ship that thing...