T-Track Question and minor rant

[steve-norrell]

The Question: Pending Gwyneth's badly needed research (See http://www.bt3central.com/showthread...ht=t-track%29), does anyone know if the t-tracks sold by MCLS are compatible with those produced by INCRA.

And the rant . . Yeah, I had read that Rockler's t-tracks are 'different', but it would be nice if Rockler mentioned that in their listings. It would improve customer relations and avoid having to send stuff back. Well, maybe this is a rant on me for not remembering.

Thanks and regards, Steve

[LCHIEN]

MLCS shows their t-track being used with 1/4-20 hex bolts, Incra says directly that theirs is used with 1/4-20 hex bolts.

Incra states 1/2" depth required, MLCS does not say.
Incra shows a groove at the bottom of their track, this is a nice feature that will keep T-bolts fom catching on round head screws as you slide fixtures down the track. OTOH other T-track I have seen don't have this, allowing the T-track to be slightly shallower than 1/2" (maybe 3/8") allowing less penetration into the table top that would allow distortion or bending. And those T-track also have some number of counter-sunk holes for mounting, again the countersinks allowing the bolts to slide neatly over the mounting screws.

And don't rant on me, I post about every time the Rockler T-tracks come up in bargain alerts, that they are "different" in some ways.

[steve-norrell]

MLCS shows their t-track being used with 1/4-20 hex bolts, Incra says directly that theirs is used with 1/4-20 hex bolts

If they both use 1/4-20 bolts then they probably use the same size t-bolts. Compatibility with the attachment hardware is only one issue, but the more important one for me; the other, and lesser concern in my case, is the outside dimensions. But, horrors of horrors, the MLCS tracks are a different color than the INCRA tracks.

And don't rant on me, I post about every time the Rockler T-tracks come up in bargain alerts, that they are "different" in some ways.

See that! I knew I had read it somewhere. No rant on you, rant on my increasingly feeble memory.

Thanks for the info, Regards, Steve

[movnup]

I've been playing with Hartville tools t-track (red color) for my new drill press table and finishing up the router table that I'm building e.g. multi-tasking projects.

First impressions are that they are shallow depth and need a thin head 1/4" nut or bolt if you go 1/4" for size (5/16 t-bolts are fine if you grind the head a 1/16), they have the groove in the center to line up and drill new holes easily as needed, and on-sale they were the least expensive of all the brands listed by Gwenyth.

[gwyneth]

Steve's situation is exactly the kind of stress I was thinking the project will be able to avert.

The American Woodworking T-track article says that Incra dimensions are 1/2" x 3/4", allowing it to accept both 1/4" bolts and hex nuts; the outer dimensions of MCLS tracks is 3/8" x 3/4", meaning it can accept only the bolt heads, not the nuts.

The Incra track is drilled for #6 screws or bigger, is not grooved on the bottom for drilling, is grooved or lipped on the side for gluing, and does not fit into a miter track.

The MCLS track is not drilled for #6 screws or bigger, is grooved on the bottom for drilling, is not grooved or lipped on the side for gluing, and does fit into a miter track.

While the article approved of "the unique recess" at the bottom of the Incra track, allowing #8 screws, it's the thing that actually makes it only semi-compatible with other tracks, and IMO, the thing that may make it particularly frustrating (i.e., stuff riding on top of the "unique recess" may slip into it.)

[gwyneth]

I've been playing with Hartville tools t-track (red color) for my new drill press table and finishing up the router table that I'm building e.g. multi-tasking projects.

First impressions are that they are shallow depth and need a thin head 1/4" nut or bolt if you go 1/4" for size (5/16 t-bolts are fine if you grind the head a 1/16), they have the groove in the center to line up and drill new holes easily as needed, and on-sale they were the least expensive of all the brands listed by Gwenyth.

Hartville's is 3/8" x 3/4", and according to the American Woodworker list will accept 1/4" bolt heads but not the hex nuts.

But Hartville systems have two other advantages: they have some nice accesories (cam handle fastener available), and if you are a member of the woodnet forum, and mention it when you order, you get a 15% discount.

[cgallery]

I'm kinda surprised that more people here don't skip the aluminum t-track and just route the t-slots themselves.

I don't think I've purchased a single piece of aluminum t-track.

I mostly use baltic birch for shop projects. I guess I would be singing a different tune if I was using MDF or hardwood. But BB sure takes routed t-slots nicely.

I purchased the bit at Rockler. I use their t-bolts.

[LCHIEN]

I have encountered and evaluated several T-tracks. Here's what I have found in common and differences:

Virtually all are made fom extruded aluminum.
The color varies, aluminum is usually anodized to prevent discoloring and unwanted oxidation (the ugly, white, crusty kind); anodizing gives an opportunity to apply some color modification. Clear anodizing (natural aluminum color) is most prevalent and always matches, I have also seen blues and golds, the problem is while they look pretty the colors are notoriously hard to match even from lot to lot so they may end up looking different. And when you cut them the color on the end will be raw aluminum.

Dado width - the slot you cut for these are universally 3/4". That means they will also fit into and slide in a miter slot on a Table saw or one of the tracks intended for miter accessories.

Dado depth - many are 1/2" deep, others are 3/8 or so. The deeper ones give room for the t-bolt to slide without hitting the tops of screws if used to mount the t-track. The shorter ones fit fully into the miter tracks mentioned above. And they keep you from having too deep a groove in the base table top preventing structural weakening. A 3/4" top would still have 3/8" material under the t-track with a 3/8" thick t-track.

Top Slot width- most are just over 1/4" allowing common 1/4-20 hex head bolts to be used.

Internal slot width and height - most allow the head of a hex head bolt 7/16th across to slide but not rotate in the track, thus locking it when used with a knob or wing nut on top. Some won't fit the hex head bolts, requiring instead a flat, oval T-bolt head instead. These cost quite a bit more , often around $1 per bolt instread of 12 to 15 cents for a hex head bolt.

Mounting - some have holes spaced so often along the bottom for mounting; often the holes are countersunk to allow flat head screws which won't hang the t-nuts as you slide them by. Countersinking is hard to do by yourself because you need a CS bit narrow enoughto fit the top slot but wide enough to swallow the screw head.

Some have a groove run down the center of the bottom of the slot - this helps center your screws when you drill your own mounting holes.

glue slots - some have tiny gooves milled in the outside bottom, allowing glued-in tracks to have something more to hold to.

[steve-norrell]

The American Woodworking T-track article says that Incra dimensions are 1/2" x 3/4", allowing it to accept both 1/4" bolts and hex nuts; the outer dimensions of MCLS tracks is 3/8" x 3/4", meaning it can accept only the bolt heads, not the nuts.

The Incra track is drilled for #6 screws or bigger, is not grooved on the bottom for drilling, is grooved or lipped on the side for gluing, and does not fit into a miter track.

The MCLS track is not drilled for #6 screws or bigger, is grooved on the bottom for drilling, is not grooved or lipped on the side for gluing, and does fit into a miter track.

This is the information I was looking for. Thanks Gwyneth!

The major concern was that the tracks work with 1/4-20 bolts and t-bolts since the applications I am thinking of would use knobs and/or toggle levers. It is clear that the MCLS tracks cannot be easily used to extend INCRA tracks, but they would be useful, and considerably less expensive, in other applications.

Gwyneth, it sounds like lots of folks are waiting for, and will be grateful for, your report.

Regards, Steve

[steve-norrell]

I'm kinda surprised that more people here don't skip the aluminum t-track and just route the t-slots themselves.

I don't think I've purchased a single piece of aluminum t-track.

I mostly use baltic birch for shop projects. I guess I would be singing a different tune if I was using MDF or hardwood. But BB sure takes routed t-slots nicely.

I purchased the bit at Rockler. I use their t-bolts.

Good point! I have tried cutting t-tracks in HMLW plastic with some success but I would be more comfortable after a few more years experience before weaning myself off of the aluminum tracks.

Regards, Steve

[gwyneth]

The major concern was that the tracks work with 1/4-20 bolts and t-bolts since the applications I am thinking of would use knobs and/or toggle levers. It is clear that the MCLS tracks cannot be easily used to extend INCRA tracks, but they would be useful, and considerably less expensive, in other applications.

By pure chance, the first two kinds of t-track I acquired--having no idea there is no "standard"--was the Rockler stuff and a length of Incra super track (their regular plus a side channel with a tape measure).

It wasn't until I read Loren's warning that I realized that Rockler track is best with Rockler stuff.

I now know that while Inra track is compatible with some other brands, and Rockler track sort of works with some other brand accesories, the two are probably at either end of the t-track compatibility range.

As to milling it vs buying it: I personally think that metal offers the advantage of accuracy and continuing resistance to wear (meaning ongoing accuracy).

Also, the cost of the bit itself equals quite a few feet of metal track, and that's before adding in time and aggravation.

But there's another way to rout your own besides buying the special bit. I've seen instructions to use a straight bit on double the length you want, turn the strips, and glue.together.

Steve, isn't MCLS the people who also sell mating track (I forget what it's called) that slides in the t-track? Of course, whoever does this provides NO measurements or very much detail, so it's really impossible to tell about compatibility.

And then there are the t-tracks on our Benchdog router table fences...

PS: Steve, the fact that your post was only a "minor rant" instead of a "major fury" speaks to your good nature.

[cgallery]

As to milling it vs buying it: I personally think that metal offers the advantage of accuracy and continuing resistance to wear (meaning ongoing accuracy).

Also, the cost of the bit itself equals quite a few feet of metal track, and that's before adding in time and aggravation.

As a long-time user of routed slots I can promise you that they are every bit as accurate as aluminum slots. There is no problem w/ wear, either. Of course, you need to use toilet-type bolts (elongated). You wouldn't want to try using plain hex-head bolts.

I actually think they are faster to install, too. One pass each with two different router bits. With aluminum, you have to take at least two or three passes wth the same bit, then cut/file the aluminum, then drill holes, then screw it in.

[steve-norrell]

Steve, isn't MCLS the people who also sell mating track (I forget what it's called) that slides in the t-track? Of course, whoever does this provides NO measurements or very much detail, so it's really impossible to tell about compatibility.

And then there are the t-tracks on our Benchdog router table fences...

PS: Steve, the fact that your post was only a "minor rant" instead of a "major fury" speaks to your good nature.

Thank you for the compliment, gwyneth -- I'm just a nice old retired guy trying to make do on a fixed income. But enough of that . . .

The only thing that I can think of that might be a "mating track" is the recent announcement from Woodpeck of a "super track" (See http://www.woodpeck.com/supertrack.html).

Here is what I am up to: I want to extend the track in my router table onto the extended table on my BT3100. The tracks in the router table are INCRAs so I think the easiest thing would be use the same brand in that application. That's not really a problem since the cost of a single 36" track is no big deal (I already have the extension at the front of the table). The alternative would be to route out a dado that is about 1/8 inch shallower and use the MCLS tracks -- not a problem, its just easier to buy the INCRA (sorry cgallery).

I found out what others already knew (and wrote about): that Rockler t-track attachments do not fit in INCRA-sized tracks and attachments that fit into INCRA tracks are too small to work effectively in the Rocklers. The Rockler purchases are going back in tomorrow's mail.

I have not had problems with the Benchdog tracks built into the router fence. I am using standard (there's that nasty word again) t-bolts to attach featherboards and other goodies -- and 1/4-20 bolts also work well. The tracks are a little deeper than usual, but that may be to accommodate a wider range of bolt heads.

Thanks for all the comments and advice. Regards, Steve

If the link doesn't work try this one: http://www.woodpeck.com/supertrack.html#1132

[gwyneth]

I'm just a nice old retired guy trying to make do on a fixed income.

Hey, those are in short supply in some parts of the country.

The only thing that I can think of that might be a "mating track"

The one I was thinking of is on this MLCS page:
http://www.mlcswoodworking.com/shops...-Ttrack_anchor
Router accessories (MLCS)

Note that it makes no mention of this MLCS product and vice versa:

http://www.mlcswoodworking.com/shops...es/ttrack.html
T-track hold down system

The tracks in the router table are INCRAs so I think the easiest thing would be use the same brand in that application. That's not really a problem since the cost of a single 36" track is no big deal

Sometimes Amazon considers INCRA track to be a saw accessory when that category is on sale, and sometimes it winds up in one of the obscure corners of the Home Improvement Outlet section.

I'm not totally sure that INCRA regular track is compatible with the INCRA stuff that has the channel with the measuring rule. You would think so.

Also, a big thanks to everybody who's encouraged this project--makes me feel less like an obsessive crank.

[steve-norrell]

I'm not totally sure that INCRA regular track is compatible with the INCRA stuff that has the channel with the measuring rule. You would think so.

They do indeed. I have the INCRA tracks with measuring tape installed on the router table and the front one is mated with a t-track (on the table extension) that does not have the added tape. It works fine as long as you are careful to align the tracks.

Of course you have to route out a wider channel for the t-track plus.

Regards, Steve