Did I Kill My Cyclone Motor?

[Jeffrey Schronce]

Thom and I moved my cyclone into its new room today. The motor is mounted on top of the cyclone (standard config) and of course cooling fan is on the very top. The new room was a tight fit and about 1.5" from motor fan to ceiling. It is not fully enclosed and it is cool outside today. I turned on DC after plumbing with 6" ductwork. I left shop for about 30 minutes and cyclone was still on (much quieter in the dedicated room so I forgot to turn it off). Total run time was probably 1 hour. When I went back out to the shop the cyclone was off. The switch was still in On position. Checked breaker and it had popped. Turned switch off, flipped breaker and turn switch back on. Machine fired up but sounded very strained/roaring. Turned it back off. Noted very small sparks from switch.
Is my motor overheated or did I fry it? I can move the cyclone around in the room to give me about 5" of headroom above motor fan, but makes getting barrel out of room much harder.

Note : Gates were open so it was not a restriction overheating thing.

[Tom Slick]

I would check continuity on the switch first.

[Thom2]

I know the setup and know darned well what we did ..... there is absolutely NO reason that motor should have overheated .... even if there were a door on that shed, there still should be AMPLE cooling to keep that motor happy.

I'd have to say it's either a fluke or another problem... PM me and keep me advised

[LCHIEN]

My suggestion might be... did you have new plumbing and ductowrk, and run with all gates open?

If so, you may have had so little restriction that the air flow was higher than the motor could stand. In a new situation like that it might have been prudent (in hindsight) to have checked the motor draw in amperes.
Because high flow situations are the highest amp consumption for a motor as opposed to restricted flow (which actually sounds noiser but draws less current).

[Jeffrey Schronce]

Tom, no idea what continuity is, how to check it or what it does.

Thom, I didn't think so either. Just first thing that came to mind.

Loring, it is new plumbing. It is 6" duct work. Only one gate was open. Previously there was a 8" to (3) 4" fitting with one 4" running off of it (old set up for HF unit I had). As far as the sound goes, it sounded fine ie very quite when I left the shop. When I came back and fired it back up it was much louder/rougher.

It has had plenty of time to cool down. Maybe I'll go give it another throw.

[Jeffrey Schronce]

Still sounds bad. Very loud/rough. I will get out there tomorrow and see if I see anything that could be a problem.

Oh ya, I vent outside thus no restriction of air going out as it would through filteration. Could that have contributed?

[LCHIEN]

total restriction, input and output side, being lower than you ever ran before, could have raised the running current beyond what you used before. If so that could have damaged the motor - a partial short in one of the windings due to overcurrent overheating can cause a motor to still but run poorly... hope that's not the case.
In any event, you get it back running OK, you should check the motor current draw to make sure its below nameplate ratings.

[Jeffrey Schronce]

I think I remember you posting that (2) 4" = 6". I have never ran the cyclone with a filter, always vented so nothing different there. Before I typically had (2) 4" openings open (seperate lines), so restriction should be about the same right? I think the plate shows 18 amps so it is pretty high.

Oh, ya I could have been imagining things but I do recall a slight electrical oder when I first went out there.

[cgallery]

It could just be infant mortality. It sounds like you weren't running it "wide-open." And while I realize that the motor's fan is close to the ceiling of the structure, there are quite a few guys that shove their motors between joists in their basements (with no ill effect).

Hopefully the motor is under warranty. I agree w/ Loring, once you figure it out get a meter and read the draw of the running motor to make sure it isn't sucking too much current. Radio Shack sells a cheap meter for about $20.

Also, after running for a few minutes, you could check the heat builtup at the ceiling of the structure. You may need to add some venting up there to keep it cool.

Good luck. Nice project, just a temporary setback I'm sure.

[Tom Slick]

Ignore my previous post, I was thinking you had more of a motor buzzing type of sound rather then a rattle.

[Jeffrey Schronce]

I will get meter suggestions and help on testing that if you guys don't mind. If it is early failure I am sure Wilke will give me a replacement motor (looks like I'm going to get to remove that motor and those darn hidden bolts anyway Thom). If I did something to do it in then I can pick up a replacement import motor real cheap at Wilke in the bargin corner.

Thanks for the help guys.

[Jeffrey Schronce]

I shot the sheriff and I killed the cyclone

I admit it. I did it. Lorings theory is right. You caught me.

Twas not the in and twas not the out. I just remembered that I did not attach the cyclone lid that connects to the barrel. A good deal of suction is used. Prior to putting supports under the barrel it would lift the barrel 2-3" off the ground and hold it up until cycled off. WIthout that restriction there it was just pumping air like a mad man.

Bad news is that Oneida no longer has the 3hp Baldor on sale for $150 shipped. Oh, well I'll swing by Wilke next week and pick up a new motor out of the bargin corner.

Thanks for the help and ideas guys.

[LCHIEN]

I think I remember you posting that (2) 4" = 6". I have never ran the cyclone with a filter, always vented so nothing different there. Before I typically had (2) 4" openings open (seperate lines), so restriction should be about the same right? I think the plate shows 18 amps so it is pretty high.

Oh, ya I could have been imagining things but I do recall a slight electrical oder when I first went out there.

not wanting to make an issue of it
but at one point you said:
"Previously there was a 8" to (3) 4" fitting with one 4" running off of it (old set up for HF unit I had)."
but then you said
"Before I typically had (2) 4" openings open (seperate lines)"

so was it necked down to one 4" line before and is now a 6" line or
was it two 4" lines before, now one 6" line?


And then you said
"Note : Gates were open so it was not a restriction overheating thing."
and later said
"Only one gate was open"

So was one gate open or multiple gates open?

I guess I'm confused since some statements lead me to believe it was really wide open and others make me think it was not much different than what you ran successfully before.
If you previously ran 8" necked to one 4" with one gate normal usage
and this time ran 6" all the way with all gates (2? 3? 4 gates?) open
then you would be running significantly more current than before.

My ultimate point: Some motor/impellor combinations are sized such that running with no or very low restrictions can burn up the motor although normal ducting/filter and one-gate open will allow it to run safely. If this is the case (and you can check with the amp meter and your lowest restriction condition) then you must be careful to to expose the motor to this for long periods of time.

[Slik Geek]

My ultimate point: Some motor/impellor combinations are sized such that running with no or very low restrictions can burn up the motor although normal ducting/filter and one-gate open will allow it to run safely.

I find this puzzling. A responsible engineer would incorporate resettable thermal protection in a system that could be run outside of the safe operating parameters. If such a situation occurred (which appears to be quite probable), the motor would shut down without damage. After a cool down period, the user would be back in business. (Responsible engineering, unfortunately, is frequently overruled by aggresive marketing).

I had this problem on my first table saw motor - but it was thermally protected so I only had a panic the first time it happened. Having written this, I now realize that I have just condemned the BT-3x00 design because it lacks thermal protection on the motor...

[SARGE..g-47]

Morning Jeff...

I doubt seriously you over-heated it. Even though the top of the motor case is close to the ceiling, most motors used on cyclones will have dis-sapation fins and air in-take from below. Again.. I personally don't think moving it to a new spot is the culprit, more likely a internal motor or switch problem.

Regards...