carbide tip missing. Anyone - ideas why?

[Im A Little Petunia]

I was checking my table saw blade last evening and found a carbide tip missing from a tooth. I can't decide why, when or how this happened and was wondering if anyone might have an idea. I have, of course, :-) the Ryobi BT3 table saw - 10 inch. The blade was the original, Ryobi 10 inch, 32 tooth. The saw is almost two years old, but the blade probably didn't have at the most 8 hours on it. Due to illness etc. it was barely used last year, so basically it is still a new blade. I have only cut 3/4 inch pine or 3/4 inch sandply and most certainly no nails, screws or metal of any type has been run through. I cannot think what would have caused this unless it might have been a defective place in the blade. It did give a very good finish cut. I did not use it again and put a new Irwin, 10", 60 tooth, crosscut/rip blade, on instead. Now, - another question, the new blade gives a good cut, but it leaves a very slight swirl, where the blade cuts. The same appears whether it's a crosscut or a rip cut. There are not any burn places on the wood. Hope someone will have some ideas about what caused the lost tip and the marks on my finish cuts from the new blade. Thanks

Im A Little Petunia

[LCHIEN]

I was checking my table saw blade last evening and found a carbide tip missing from a tooth. I can't decide why, when or how this happened and was wondering if anyone might have an idea. I have, of course, :-) the Ryobi BT3 table saw - 10 inch. The blade was the original, Ryobi 10 inch, 32 tooth. The saw is almost two years old, but the blade probably didn't have at the most 8 hours on it. Due to illness etc. it was barely used last year, so basically it is still a new blade. I have only cut 3/4 inch pine or 3/4 inch sandply and most certainly no nails, screws or metal of any type has been run through. I cannot think what would have caused this unless it might have been a defective place in the blade. It did give a very good finish cut. I did not use it again and put a new Irwin, 10", 60 tooth, crosscut/rip blade, on instead. Now, - another question, the new blade gives a good cut, but it leaves a very slight swirl, where the blade cuts. The same appears whether it's a crosscut or a rip cut. There are not any burn places on the wood. Hope someone will have some ideas about what caused the lost tip and the marks on my finish cuts from the new blade. Thanks

Im A Little Petunia

The carbide tips are attached with a brazing process (kind of like soldering) and sometimes they don't hold. Because it has a crack in the brazing, or a bubble/void in the brazing. Possibly a latent manufacturing defect. In any case, it might hold until high stress from hitting something hard, or just being used, then get thrown off and lost.

Your local blade sharpening service should be able to replace a lost or broken tooth for a few ($3 ?) or so... Ask them. Theyll braze a new one on and shape it like the one lost. BTW the original Ryobi blade is a 36 Tooth.

As for the replacement blade... Irwin, I would say, is not a real high quality blade.

[Ken Massingale]

Welcome back, Lynn. Sorry illness has kept you from enjoying woodworking. Check Holbren, Brian has some good deals on excellent blades.
k

[scorrpio]

BT3 used to include a quality Freud blade, but for some past years, the blade became China-made and of decidedly lesser quality. I did not lose any teeth on mine (I bought my BT3 in late-2005), but I haven't been using it much either.

Btw, 60 tooth blade is not a good choice for rips. Combo blades are usually 36-40 teeth, and dedicated rip have less than 30, with huge gullets for rapid waste removal. And swirl marks usually mean that blade has a runout.

My primary TS blade is a Ridge Carbide TS2000, bought from Holbren. It's a 40T combo. Don't even have to compare the cuts - the blade positively oozes quality. Carbide looks 2x larger and way more precisely ground than on BT3 stock blade, gullets are deep, and brazing is flawless. Every cut from this blade has been glass-smooth - worth every penny of $65 I paid for it. I also have a Forrest WW2, and I think TS2000 is better.

[ragswl4]

Same thing happened to me about six months ago, same saw, same blade. Noticed cutting was not as good as before, inspected the blade and found it was missing a tooth. Tossed the blade as I figured that it may loose more teeth so best to get a new blade. Age of saw was 1.5 years at the time.

[Im A Little Petunia]

Thanks a lot for the welcome back Ken. It's really good to be back. I will certainly check out Brian Holbren's blades. I ordered from Mike Jackson (Leitz) and did not know the blade would be an Irwin until it arrived. I was not sure what type of blade I needed, so I told him what my major type of wood would be and he told me what I needed. Everything has changed so much since I last did woodworking (15 yrs. ago) and I didn't know whether to get negative or positive and what the difference was etc. etc., so I assumed he knew what he was talking about - but I guess I assumed too much :-( I only started doing wood work again in late '05 and then lost last year, so I'm struggling to learn a whole lot in a short period of time. That said, I'll be more careful and start asking more questions 'before' I order next time! :-) I'll certainly check out the blade mentioned by Scorrpio. Thanks again all, it's great to have a place to come to for asking questions. Oh BTW, what blade is recommended for a 10" Ryobi CMS? I'm looking for finish cuts in plywood and pine.

Lynn

[John Hunter]

Oh BTW, what blade is recommended for a 10" Ryobi CMS? I'm looking for finish cuts in plywood and pine.

Lynn

I use the Freud LU85R010 10", 80-Tooth, Alternate Top Bevel, Red Perma-SHIELD Blade and get great cuts with it.

[SARGE..g-47]

Good morning Lynn...

Scorpio pretty much nailed down why you are not better off using a 60 tooth blade for you TS, unless you are strickly cross-cutting. The more teeth, the finer the cut but.... less gullets to carry waste away relating to slower ripping and probable burn and grind marks if you feed too fast. I strickly rip on my table saw and run a CMT 24 tooth. I have run Freuds, Ridge, Systematic, etc. etc. They are all good blades.

On the TS you want a blade with postitive hook as the cutting action takes place on the down-stroke with the front teeth. But.. to answer your question about CMS's or SCMS, you definitely want to be sure you purchase a blade expecially for miter saws which has a Negative hook. The Freud John Hunter metioned (and the same one I run on my Hitachi 12" SCMS) has a 5* degree negative hook.

The negative hook needs to be there for safety and to get a clean cut with a miter. Opposed to a TS, the miter cuts on the Up-stroke and the negative hook pushes the stock securely against the fence instead of lifting it up.. up.. and away to never-never land. If you are looking for clean cross-cuts there, the more teeth the finer the cut. And as opposed to ripping, the smaller gullets to carry away waste are not a factor as much less saw-dust has to be removed in cross-cutting.

Hope that helps sort out all the mumbo-jumbo about positive-negative,etc, etc. It's not all that complicated if you learn what each is and what the effects of it are.

Regards...

[Im A Little Petunia]

Hope that helps sort out all the mumbo-jumbo about positive-negative,etc, etc. It's not all that complicated if you learn what each is and what the effects of it are.

Regards...

Thanks Sarge

That info helped a lot - now to Holbren's site. Aren't 'ya all great and smart!

Lynn

[cabinetman]

Because I cut a variety of stock on the CMS and RAS, I use a 60T ATB, either 0 or negative hook. Some plywoods (like hardwood plywood) and pines (like SYP - Southern Yellow Pine), are very hard. I use an 80T ATB when I'm cutting moulding or small stock, and leave the blade on for the duration of the stock. The 60T seems to be an all around blade (for me), for general crosscutting.

As for missing teeth, it is scary to all of a sudden notice that one or more is missing. I have found them inside the table saw cabinet on the floor. They are more likely to dislodge during or as a result of cutting and become free just beyond the stock. Take extra care in handling the blades when changing them or storing them. It's very easy to knock the teeth if you stack them on each other, or hang them on the same hook. When removing the protective soft edge that sometimes comes on new blades or resharpened ones, use a piece of wood to gently release it from the teeth.

I have only heard one story (from suppliers) that an individual got hit in the forehead with a tip, and it penetrated fairly deep. Wasn't fatal, just a good one to tell grandkids about. He probably used his saw blade guard after that.

[Jeffrey Schronce]

Thanks a lot for the welcome back Ken. It's really good to be back. I will certainly check out Brian Holbren's blades. I ordered from Mike Jackson (Leitz) and did not know the blade would be an Irwin until it arrived. I

The Irwin sold by Mike Jackson is made by Leitz and is a quality blade.

I think the ultimate combo blade for your saw is the Ridge Carbide (not to be confused with Ridgid) TS2000 10" 40T 3/32" kerf sold by Brian Holbren. $89.95 - 10% BT3 discount - $80 for what is IMHO the best all around blade on the market. For those wondering why TS2000 over WWII, first the carbide is super chunky and bigger than the WWII. Second, the ATB-R design results in flat bottom dados, cheeks, etc without requiring clean up with router. Third, they offer an excellent mail in sharpening service. Fourth, Brian sells them. For a less expensive blade I highly recommend the Tenryu Rapid Cut 10" 50T Combo ATB-R from Brian @ $44.95 - 10%.

Currently Amazon has 20% off all blade with 20offmay code applied at check out.

[Im A Little Petunia]

The Irwin sold by Mike Jackson is made by Leitz and is a quality blade.

Hi Jeffrey:
That makes me feel better. I bought two of them (the cheaper ones), so I am going to try the other one tomorrow to see if it has runout - if I am understanding what runout is. Then if it doesn't at least I will have a blade to use until a new blade arrives. Thanks
Lynn

[LCHIEN]

Hi Jeffrey:
That makes me feel better. I bought two of them (the cheaper ones), so I am going to try the other one tomorrow to see if it has runout - if I am understanding what runout is. Then if it doesn't at least I will have a blade to use until a new blade arrives. Thanks
Lynn

Don't overtighten the arbor nut - that can warp a blade and make it wobble and give the kind of cuts you describe.

Some people "put a death grip on it" but the arbos nut should be turned down by hand until snug and a wrench used to turn it perhaps 1/4 to 1/4 more turn. As the threads are left-handed the motion of the blade makes the nut self tightening.

[Im A Little Petunia]

Don't overtighten the arbor nut - that can warp a blade and make it wobble and give the kind of cuts you describe.

Some people "put a death grip on it" but the arbos nut should be turned down by hand until snug and a wrench used to turn it perhaps 1/4 to 1/4 more turn. As the threads are left-handed the motion of the blade makes the nut self tightening.

Thanks Loring. When I change blades tomorrow I'll do it that way. I knew not to overtighten, but was never able to really tell how tight I did have the arbor nut.
Lynn

[scorrpio]

Oh BTW, what blade is recommended for a 10" Ryobi CMS? I'm looking for finish cuts in plywood and pine.
Lynn

Check this link
I ordered the 'FINISH BLADE' - 10", 80T. It has a -5 deg. hook. They had it on sale at that moment, so I think I paid $60 total. I put it on my Craftsman RAS, and so far am very pleased with the quelity. The blade is completely unmarked, but teeth have a high-quality look about them.