Bandsaw blades

**SARGE..g-47** · 12-01-2006, 02:23 PM

I will try to answer some of your questions as my wife won't let me go to the shop yet since surgery several days ago. :>)

Yes I use a stone, especially on narrower blades that are more intended for curves. The stone rounds off the back edge from 90* degrees and gives less drag in the curve cut. No.. you don't have to buy thier more expensive stone mouhted to a stick. Any fine grit small stone will work. Just apply it to the back and turn the corner to the other side several time to make sure that the entire rear edge gets rounded over the entire length. Not a bad idea to check the weld on any new blade to make sure you don't have excessive flashing as that will set off an alarm with a ticking sound when running. Even good blade companies as Timber-wolf have bad days. Monday and Friday come to mind upon further thought. ha.. ha...

Yes, I have been using PAM for years. Slicks that blade up and reduces the high pitch whine you will get with some hard hard-woods. No silicon in it to leave anything on the stock that will become a problem latter with when finish is applied (fish-eyes, etc.).

What blade to buy.. I would as suggested stay away from the very widest that your tire will accept. Other than that, what blade is more of what are you going to do with it.. how thick is the stock.. curves.. ripping.. re-saw and a host of other variables. The Timberwolves are great blades, especially for smaller BS's under 1v 1/2 HP with smaller springs.

So....... first think what you will use if for most.. next.. next.. etc. That will tell you what to buy. And once you know that, the Timberwolf folks will assist you on tpi.. pitch.. etc. until you learn what all this means in relation to what each characteristic will do in a certain circumstance.

I highly suggest you pruchase "The Bandsaw Book" by Lonnie Bird. It will be the best $20 investment you will make with your BS. A band-saw is the most finnicky tool you have.. but once mastered it is the most versatile tool you have in the shop. Without knowledge of it, virtually useless and frustrating. With knowledge, a pleasure to behold and another great tool in your bag of tricks waiting for the right situation!

Regards...

**Knottscott** · 12-01-2006, 03:58 PM

Back when I was heavily into highend audio, people would occasionally tell me that they really don't enjoy listening to music enough to warrant spending the time listening or the money on a decent system. My response was usually that I wouldn't enjoy listening to their terrible system either.....Now that you have a decent BS, put some decent blades on it to optimize it and you might find uses for it, and an enjoyment from it that you hadn't anticipated. The good folks at Suffolk Machinery can give you excellent recommendations....they also offer the 4th blade free when you buy 3. (code 443).

I can't comment on the PAM idea, but it makes some intuitive sense, plus since it's not an aftermarket product that they're hawking, the suggestion has a bit more credibility in my view.

**BrazosJake** · 12-01-2006, 09:18 PM

Stoning: Yes, heard of it but haven't done it myself. Its supposed to save your thrust bearing.

Pam: Yes, I use it. There's fancy graphite sticks, but pam (or store-brand veggie spray) works for me. Also makes a decent honing oil for tuning a scraper.

Blades: I'm a Lennox man, though the Starretts from BCSaw are good, just expensive to ship since they're in Canada. Personally, I find TWs overpriced and don't buy into their "less tension for silicon steel" sales pitch. For resawing, I wouldn't go over 1/2"-wide on a 14" saw. Pretty much all carbon steel blades need about 15,000 psi for max beam strengh. Wider the blade, the more tension is needed to reach that figure (though tension is relative, you seldom need max tension unless you resawing near the capacity of the saw). Anyhow, most 14" saw tension springs don't come anywhere near, a rule of thumb is to tension the blade to the next widest setting, e.g. tension a 1/4" to the 3/8" setting. Another alternative is to buy a higher tension spring from Iturra designs.

**LCHIEN** · 12-01-2006, 10:33 PM

I always thought that breaking the trailing edges of the bandsaw blades was to improve cutting curves. You can turn a bit tighter and not thave the sharp trailing corner dig into the side of the cut when you try and turn.

**drumpriest** · 12-02-2006, 01:02 AM

Yep, I stone the backs of mine, and it is for cutting curves. Easier to turn when the back is rounded over. I could see this helping a thurst bearing as well, potentially, if the back edge of the blade were a touch sharp.

**AlanWS** · 12-02-2006, 01:46 PM

I agree with Sarge that setting up the saw properly is rather important, and without someone to show you, a good book is extremely useful. Which book is almost a religious question, and I admit to being a Duginskonian rather than a Birdman like Sarge, probably because I saw that book first. (Mark Duginske's Bandsaw Handbook. He and I both live in Wisconsin too.) A multidenominational approach would be John White's Care and Repair of shop machines, which covers setup and tuning not only of the bandsaw, but the other important stationary equipment. In contrast to Bird and Duginske, White does not cover details of bandsaw use. Another excellent resource is free: the Iturra catalog. There's no website, but calling Iturra at (888) 722-7078 will get you the catalog, and any bandsaw stuff.

If blade backs are not smooth already, I stone them. It's quick and easy, can be done with any crummy stone or a piece of sandpaper, helps with turns, and prevents damage to the thrust bearing if the weld is really bad. (If the weld is bad, with the blade offset or bent at that spot, return the blade for a different one. It matters, and any reputable dealer will exchange it. If yours won't, you've learned something valuable and should look elsewhere next time.) TW are good blades, but so are others: Starrett and Lenox make good blade stock, which is welded up by lots of companies. I think Olson is fine too. I wouldn't go over 1/2" wide on a 14" bandsaw either, but would pay attention to thickness as well as width of the blade.

The blades perform best at the proper tension (though other settings must be correct to get the benefit of proper tension, and tension can affect the alignment. It is worth getting a book.) Tension is force per cross sectional area of the blade, which means putting a wider blade on your saw requires the frame to pull harder, but so does a thicker blade. So not all 1/2" blades are the same. Most are 0.025" thick, but some are 0.035", and some (Highland Hardware Woodslicer or Iturra bladerunner) are only 0.022" thick. To properly tension two blades with the same width and tooth pitch, a 0.035" thick blade takes about 1 1/2 times as much force as a 0.022" one, the same factor as going from a 1/2" to a 3/4" blade. A 1/2" wide blade with 3 TPI (teeth per inch) has maybe 3/8" of steel from the gullet to the back of the blade. At the recommended 15,000 PSI tension, the thinner blade has 15000 psi x 0.022 in x 0.375 in = 124 lb of force on the blade. As this is on the band on both sides of the wheel, the frame of the saw must hold 250 lb, or a bit more while cutting. The thicker blade would require more like 375 lb. A top quality 14" saw will have no problem holding up to the higher force without distortion. My cheapo bandsaw works beautifully with the thinner blade, but most likely would have problems with a thicker or wider one.

The smaller the wheels on your saw, the sharper you are bending the blade. A wider and thicker blade has a harder time bending so sharply, and while it may cut OK, it is likely to have a shorter lifetime than a more flexible blade. If the blades last long enough to become dull, this bending is not a problem for you. I'd check that out before investing in an expensive bimetal or carbide blade that was only available in a thicker band.

A 1/2" 3 TPI blade is probably what you want to resawing and making straight rip cuts in general. Reserving one in its sharpest state for resawing, and demoting it to general use once it dulls slightly is reasonable. Don't use blades after they get noticeably dull. Most problems you encounter will be traced to a dull blade. I like the Woodslicer a lot, as it works well on an underpowered bandsaw, cuts a very thin kerf, and leaves a phenomenally smooth surface, but it should be used on dry wood. Green wood cuts better with a blade that has more set. Watch the blade: if it gets dirty, it will cut poorly, overheat and deflect, destroying the blade and workpiece.

Some (Michael Fortune) recommend using ONLY 3 TPI 1/2" wide blades for all stock thickness, and any curves down to something like 2 1/2" radius. This does not match the advice of blademakers, but it is not crazy. One advantage is that since you need to tweak the bandsaw to behave well with the blade on it, if you run only one type of blade you spend a lot less time tweaking, and it's more likely to be set up properly. Even if you don't get all blades of this type, I'd keep at least two on hand, with one reserved for resawing. I'd try to stay at or below 0.025" thick for this.

A 1/4" wide blade is good to cut curves down to some fairly small radius you can look up. (The tables are a guide, but are not accurate because the radius you can cut depends not only on the width of the blade, but also on the ratio of kerf to blade body thickness, that is, the set.) My predjudice is that you don't need very high tooth counts: 4 TPI is good for cutting rapidly, 6 TPI will do for fairly fine cuts, and 10-14 TPI (or higher) is best for narrower blades for very tight curves (3/16" and 1/8").

I'd get ordinary carbon steel blades (I consider TW to be ordinary carbon steel) to start, so you can see how each blade size behaves. While they are sharp, they cut well. Once they dull, you can consider the more expensive options of bimetal (Lenox usually) or even the much more expensive carbide.

I guess I am very longwinded, but hope someone will find something useful here. If not, one of the virtues of the internet is how easy it is to ignore something you don't care about.

**SARGE..g-47** · 12-03-2006, 07:55 PM

Evening Alan..

Actually I took my basic training with Mark Duginski also in his original book. I had heard several mention that Bird had an excellent bandsaw out but was reluctant as to what could he say that Mark Duginsli hadn't already. Got a copy as a gift, so............

The recommendation of the Bird book was twofold:

(1) The way it was arranged and edited.. I believe the beginner would grasp it quicker as he seemed to cater to them. The information is basically the same, just presented in a more step by step manner IMO.

(2) Birds book was written long after Mark's and new technology has been introduced since that Bird covers. Not only with the bandsaws themselves, but with blade technology. For instance I rode a 1/4" 6 tpi skip for many years as the keep on blade for a small BS. Rare to see the skip anymore as it has been over-shadowed by the hook. Similar, but the hook is more aggressive.

Either book is a gold-mine and will benefit anyone... novice or old hand! The latter is just more up to date for someone "just walking in the door" to get their feet wet as I view it.

Regards...

**AlanWS** · 12-03-2006, 10:52 PM

Sarge:

Thanks. It sounds like your Bird recommendation was carefully considered, and it might not hurt me to take another look either. I'm no longer a novice, but haven't earned old hand status yet.

**linear** · 12-04-2006, 05:59 AM

My novice perspective, having read both books, is That Lonnie Bird's book was more useful to me as a tutorial, for the reasons Sarge mentioned. My saw came without a manual (used), and Bird's book substitutes well.

**SARGE..g-47** · 12-04-2006, 08:00 AM

LED..

Thanks for weighing in with your comments. I was hoping that someone starting out would read both books to confirm my suspicions as they were only suspicions. And that's not taking anything away from Mark as I have another suspicion that Lonnie Bird probably took his basic from Duginski's book also considering his age bracket. There was very little infromation out there on bandsaws (or anything else WW related) when I caught the "fever" in 1972 at 25 years old 34 years ago.

All the fine books and instant answers to your questions (internet) have come more recently as the hobby has spread like wildfire. Word of mouth and trail and error was the norm back in the 70"s and early 80's. We didn't have the advanced tools of today (even though some things don't change as hand planes, etc. etc.) and honestly we didn't know we needed them. We just took what we could get our hands on and found a way top make them work.

Fine WW magazine came along in the mid 70"s to pave the way with the written word. Highland Hardware (just changed to HIghland Woodworking) opened it's doors around the same time here in Atlanta and became an instant mecca and meeting point for word of mouth for southern WW's here.

I cerrtainly don't regret those facts as it laid a very solid foundation as the modern power tools and time saving techniques have been gradually introduced since then. I just hope that a newbie to the craft realizes that WW has more humble roots and was able to evolve to "just plug it in and if you have a question, a few keystrokes on the computer will lead you to the promise land".

In the late 70's they were going to have a guest speaker and working seminar at Highland Hardware with some fella from Europe. I signed up as it sounded interesting to get the views of a European WW who had apprenticed to learn the craft. He introduced himself as "Tage Frid". My first thought was "Tage Who.. never heard of him". :>)

Sorry to rave on.. just someone approaching becoming and old man reminiscing about the long journey he started years ago before the "infomation highway" was ever concieved. Regardless, just give me a tool and I'll find a way to make it work! ha.. ha...

Regards...

**LarryG** · 12-04-2006, 08:20 AM

I have both books, and find the Duginske far more useful than the Bird once you get past the raw tyro stage (and I don't regard myself as too far past that stage, FWIW). The problem I have with the Bird -- which I suspect is essentially a compilation of reprints of magazine articles -- is that there's far too much repetition. There are two early chapters, one about the different kinds of band saws and the other about purchasing one's first band saw, that basically repeats the same material. I recall one page, maybe 3/4 of the way through, where he says exactly the same thing no less than three times: once in the text, one in a photo caption, and once in a sidebar. All on the same page!

I enjoy Bird's articles in the woodworking mags but the amount of filler in this particular book left me feeling a bit cheated.

**BrazosJake** · 12-04-2006, 01:30 PM

I found Michael Fortune's article "5 tips to better bandsawing" more useful than any book.

Be advised, though, Fortune recommends a 1/2", 3-tpi skip-tooth as a general purpose blade. Most resaw blades are 3-tpi hook, a more aggressive geometry.

I NEVER cut curves with a resaw or general-purpose blade, it alters the set and the blade will never track straight again. I either pull out the jigsaw, or put on a narrower/older blade (usually the former since changing blades is a pita).

**onedash** · 12-07-2006, 05:34 PM

I got Lonnie birds book today...Ordered on BN website...And I also picked up the saw at sears...Have to wait for Christmas though...It weighs about 250 pounds.....I need a dolly.....
At northern tool I saw some little carpeted mobile bases...only $12 a piece...to small for any tools but to lug stuff around like that you cant beat it...im gonna have to go get one or two...You cant get the wheels that cheap....

**onedash** · 12-08-2006, 08:13 AM

After reading through the book It seems like a carbide blade is the ideal choice for resawing....But it says they require so much more tension.
Anyone with a 14" BS using a Carbide blade?
what is considered a good life for a carbon steel blade? and does 25 times longer life sound reasonable for carbide????

I agree there is a lot of repetition in the book.,.Maybe that helps it sink in better????

Bandsaw blades

Bandsaw blades

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