Dovetail Nightmare - Vent, Rave . . . Help?

[Jeffrey Schronce]

I tell ya, these freaking dovetails make me insain. So I got the HF jig (probably my first mistake) and spent a whole day screwing it up. I put it on the shelf and when Rockler had the through template on sale I picked it up along with the pre-set offset stops. I also got the Dovetail Setup Jig.
So looking at what I have here I think I am no better off today than I was yesterday.
Ok, so I might be cool on the offset stops. That solves that issue. But looking at the Woodtek instructions it says I need a 14 degree bit. How do I know if I have that? I have 1/4" Shank 1/2" Dovetail bit in a Craftsman kit and I have the 1/2" Shank 1/2" Dovetail bit in the Holbren set. Neither detail the degree of the bit. Based upon directions I couldn't use the Holbren bit anyway as it is 1/2" Shank and directions call for 1/2" (though if it fits in the bushing what's the difference?).
The Setup Jig has left me frustrated as well. What the heck do I do with it. The instructions suck. Plus I am not using PC, rather I am using Bosch so that is probably screwing something up as well. How do I know the template guide depth is the same between PC and Bosch? That would directly relate to how the stupid bit is set right?
Ok lets say I forget about 1/2" blind and move on to through dovetail template. At least I have the right bits as they were included. The darn thing is saying I need to make a clamping shim 1/4" thicker than stock. It should be approx 10 x 7". It suggests cutting piece of stock and adding 1/4" hardboard. Then it goes on to say it should be flush with the back of the jig. Well if I cut it "approximately" 10 x 7 how the heck is it going to be flush in the back and set correctly in the front? Wouldn't I need a specific, exact measurement?
So after I make this shim that should have came with the jig in the first place, then I have to go through 25 other steps taking the template on and off, on and off . . . .
Seriously. How hard are these stupid things for you folks. Example : I can breeze through Rail/Stile/Raised Panels. I can get pretty darn nice fitting M&T joints. Both of those are seem to be advanced woodworking skills, but I just feel like a freaking retard when it comes to Dovetails. Should I trash the whole set and get a PC set up? Or is there a better way to join drawers, where I can skip these stupid, stupid, stupid dovetails?

[final_t]

The simplest explanation is to experiment. You probably have the 14 degree bit, but don't know it. Try measuring the angle of the bit, or just have a go at it - get some leftover pine, put it in place flush-left-edges, and have a whack. Sure, it'll be offset like mad, but you'll at least get a feel for how it works. Turn the boards around and try offsetting the top one so that it's edge falls at the half-way mark of the slot. Keep having at it with scrap. There has been recent articles in the major magazines (pretty sure Shopnotes and PWW) on these things, and give good tips on how to use it and thinking about arranging the wood face in/out.

Once you get a good joint produced, try it again with keeper boards and write on it. This will help you a BUNCH when setting up the bit depth.

If you're looking at just through dovetails, I recommend MLCS's unit:

http://www.mlcswoodworking.com/shops...vetailjig.html

I've got mine mounted on a 2x4 glueup, and a spacer block screwed into it to make setup simpler. Did a bunch of drawers with it.

[Ken Massingale]

Jeffrey,
Just bite the bullet and order the Incra Ultra II and be done with it, you know you want one. :-D
ken

[John Hunter]

I have the HF Dovetail jig and just made 3 drawers. Played a bit in setting it up but once it was set up my first set of dovetails came out very nice.

[LCHIEN]

Man take it easy, you're gonna blow a gasket.

To me part of the learning experience is research.
For example a quick scan of the dovetail bits commonly packed in sets will reveal that the 1/2" 14° dovetail is the most popular bit. And also used predominantly in router jigs.

Do some more reearch and then try some joints on scrap to get the hang of it.

[Jeffrey Schronce]

Lorin,
You're right I need to chill and to prove it I just encountered my first TS kick back with a 7 x 10" chunk of MDF slicing my belly open. Good news is I had plenty of padding there. Bad news is my wife is going to yell at me as it is going to be a huge bruise. Number one rule . . . don't work angry. I was just getting frustrated with the jig, the darn flies (just sprayed the fields with manure!) the heat, etc.

Anyone want this thing for free? Actual shipping is all I need.

Seriously, anyone that wants it can have it. I don't like the way the router base rides on that aluminum plate, all of those Rockler accessories I got are not for the model that looks the same as the HF model. I have the original HF box. I honestly like to enjoy woodworking, not spending the 10 hours I have trying to get some marginal piece of equipment to work.

Ok, so now what do I do? Ken, I know we had discussed the Ultra a while back and I really like my Incra products. At the same time, can I get by with just the MCLS through jig? Or should I shoot for the PC jig? I understand the PC is much easier to set up, with preset stops, etc. Of course the Incra makes some wicked DT's! Ken, I believe you said that there was not that big of a curve for you on the Incra?

[Jeffrey Schronce]

Jeffrey,
Just bite the bullet and order the Incra Ultra II and be done with it, you know you want one. :-D
ken

Do you have yours in a free standing RT? Seems like it maybe a hassel in a RT in a TS wing. THen again, I am getting a little tired of that as well and could just build a stand alone RT.

[Wood_workur]

Pm sent. Only sell if you are sure. Seriously.

[jackellis]

If I managed to make the HF jig work, and I don't have enough patience for this hobby, anyone can. It isn't that hard and just takes a little time and experimentation. Of course, if you can buy one of the fancier ones that's easier to set up, go for it.

My biggest problem was thinking I could use a HSS bit and cheap Chinese plywood that's not uniform thickness to cut dovetails. Those problems aside, it seems to work amazingly well and for me, the price was definitely right. I'm going to use it for some shop drawers here pretty soon.

[Jeffrey Schronce]

Pm sent. Only sell if you are sure. Seriously.

Not selling . . . giving away! LOL! Got you PM and you can have it bro.

[Jeffrey Schronce]

If I managed to make the HF jig work, and I don't have enough patience for this hobby, anyone can. It isn't that hard and just takes a little time and experimentation. Of course, if you can buy one of the fancier ones that's easier to set up, go for it.

My biggest problem was thinking I could use a HSS bit and cheap Chinese plywood that's not uniform thickness to cut dovetails. Those problems aside, it seems to work amazingly well and for me, the price was definitely right. I'm going to use it for some shop drawers here pretty soon.

Ya, it's probably a mental block or something. I have spent over 10 hours with it and it's just not working for me. I have tons of patience with most things, this just isn't one of them.

[JimD]

Jeffrey,

I think you should keep the jig but wait until you have more patience to use it again. I have dents in my work-table from my lack of patience. I suspect we all run a little low at least occasionally. If I gave up every time I got pissed, I would not have completed nearly as many projects as I have.

The HF dovetail jig is a very good half blind dovetail jig and an incredible value. The standard 1/2 inch spacing dovetail template is a little rough but it does not seem to affect the joints at all. I have a dresser with 10 drawers in our bedroom all cut with my HF jig (all 4 corners), I just completed a dresser with 4 drawers and two nightstands with one drawer each, etc. etc.. I bought a 7/16 dovetail template (aluminum) from Grizzly and use it with the HF jig when the plans call for dovetails on 7/8 spacing.

Enough lectures - some data. You need a template guide for your Bosch router that is 1/2 inch in outside diameter and short enough that it does not extend below the dovetail jig template guide when the router is on the jig (i.e. the template guide can only be about 1/8 high). You have to use a 1/4 inch shank bit because a 1/2 inch shank will not go through the template guide. A 14 degree 1/4 shank dovetail bit is about 1/2 inch diameter at the big end. I have had trouble with cheap bits for this application. My current one is from CMT - works great.

Setup is a bit of a pain with the HF jig but it also makes the jig versatile to have so many adjustments. To set the side stops, I made a setup board of 3/4 scrap. For the stock 1/2 template that comes with the HF, cut the scrap to an even inch width (3 inches, 4 inches, etc.). Put lines on the top of the scrap that are spaced at the same spacing of the template guide. Put the first line at 1/2 the spacing, however. For the HF template, the first line goes at 1/4 inch from the edge, the second at 3/4 inch, the third at 1 1/4 inch, etc. The last line should be 1/4 inch from the other edge. Now put a line at 1/2 inch from the side on the edge of the 3/4 plywood scrap. Now put the scrap piece on the top of the HF jig where the drawer front would go. Position it so that the lines line up with the fingers in the template of the HF jig. Clamp it down. Now push the stop for the drawer front up against the side of the scrap. Slide the stop for the drawer side to the line on the edge of the scrap. Congratulations, you have now set all but one setting on the jig. The scrap piece can be used to set the stops on either side of the jig. The setting may not be perfect but if you made the lines accurately you will be very close.

The only remaining setting is for the stop that controls the depth of cut into the front piece. I made another little jig for this. Get the distance you want the stop to be back from the edge of the template guide from the Woodstock instruction manual. Rip a piece of plywood scrap this distance. Now cut a piece of 1/8 inch thick scrap as long as this first piece (ideally close to 12 inches wide) and about 1/8 wider than the other piece is thick. Tack the second piece onto the edge of the first piece such that it is flush with one surface and hanging down 1/8 below the other surface. Now this jig goes onto the HF template guide on top with the little 1/8 piece up against the rounded fingers of the guide. You set the projection of the template guide such that the drawer side is flush with the second little scrap piece. Next you set the stop (the metal bar that goes from side to side on top of the template guide) such that it is up against the other edge of this jig. Again, you may have to fine tune this a little but it should be very close.

See my post on the Shop section on my dovetail jig station for some admittedly poor pictures that may help a bit.

You can do this. If you had somebody like me close enough, you could see this done once and you would be set. If you can picture what I am telling you, you can be set up in less than an hour. If use 1/2 baltic birch for most of my drawers so I rarely have to change the settings. It is not quite set once and forget it but close. The second time is much much easier. I had trouble at first too.

Jim

[Jeffrey Schronce]

Jim,
I appreciate your reply and take it to heart.
Some of you info is a little different than the instructions I am using, namely the 1/2" OD. It seemed that the portion the OD of the bushing would control was ok, rather it was the depth of the stop fence. I explicitly followed the Rockler set up jig instructions, yet the sockets were WAY too deep. My tries months ago were better.
Wood_workur said he was going to pass on his offer to take it off my hands so maybe I will give it one hour tommorow. I am still hesitant though as I don;t think I would ever be able to do through DTs on it. Just seems the PC maybe the better way to go.
I'll keep everyone entertained thats for sure. Thanks for talking me off the roof guys . . . .

[jarhead]

Jeffrey,
I bought my HF jig a while back and it still has not been taken out of the box. Everytime I hear all the horror stories, it makes me want to keep it in the box even longer until I save up for a PC DT jig. If an experienced woodworker such as yourself is having a hard time with this jig, a newbie, such as myself, will probably will have no easier time with it.

Jim,
That is quite an explanation you have written there... Most of it makes no sense to me, but a pictorial to go along with it would be nice... hint-hint

[final_t]

Bushing guides

The mention of the proper guides reminded me of what I forgot to mention: I use the Millscraft turnlock base & guides on my dovetail setup. I like them because I can cut the plastic guide down with a hand-held coping saw to fit. All the other guides I had were too tall.

And you're right not working angry. Either clean the shop or work on the woodpile with an axe and make firewood.