Dovetail Nightmare - Vent, Rave . . . Help?

[Jeffrey Schronce]

Jeffrey,
I bought my HF jig a while back and it still has not been taken out of the box. Everytime I hear all the horror stories, it makes me want to keep it in the box even longer until I save up for a PC DT jig. If an experienced woodworker such as yourself is having a hard time with this jig, a newbie, such as myself, will probably will have no easier time with it.

Jim,
That is quite an explanation you have written there... Most of it makes no sense to me, but a pictorial to go along with it would be nice... hint-hint

Don't let my thick headedness stop you for trying it yourself. It could (and most likely is) completely my issue.

[dwitzke]

Remember before all of these jigs, we just had chisels. I just learned how to hand cut my dovetails. This is the way to go (unless you are in production.)

[mcgrath4u]

Help Page

I thought I had kept this link somewhere. This is a tutorial on how to do through dovetails with the rockler through template. Hope it helps.


http://www.woodshopdemos.com/dts-rock-1.htm

John

[vaking]

Speaking of dovetailing routing bits. I have read somewhere (don't remember exactly where) that there are 2 popular angles for those bits. 14 degree bits are used for softwood and 9 degree is used for hardwood. 9 degree bits are sometimes referred as 18 degree (obviosly they measure different angles). Most kits come with 14 degree bits and that makes me wonder - how many people make dovetails out of pine? Shouldn't most kits and jigs be calling for 9 degree bits since most dovetails as I know are poplar or birch ply. I do not have enough experience to say for sure but I think that dovetail jigs are not very sensitive to angle of a bit.
One more detail - dovetailing jig I have calls for 7/16" outside diameter size template guide adapter. That makes bits with 1/2" shank useless. The bit has 1/2" cutting diameter, if it also has 1/2" shank - how are going to put adapter on it if inner diameter of adapter is less than 7/16?

[JimD]

Jeffrey,

Alex is right, the bushing is 7/16. I do not have my manual with me at the moment but a 1/2 bushing makes no sense since I remember I use the same one with the Grizzly template which has only 7/16 wide slots. The depth of the sockets in the drawer front are totally controlled by the blue bar that runs side to side on top of the fingered template guide. If they are too deep, you move the bar closer to the fingers. The better manual you can find through previous posts on this website has a nice table that gives you the setting as a function of the diameter of your router base (my PC690 is 6 inches if my memory is working this time) and the thickness of the drawer side. You can probably also get there through trial and error although that does not seem to be working for you at the moment. I would not think a jig from Rockler would be useful for this because the pictures in their catalog make me think that their jigs are quite different from the HF jig on this setting. I think the only adjustment on the Rockler jig is to move the fingered template in and out. You can do that on the HF but it only controls how rounded the end of the tails are. The bar controls the depth and is not present on the Rockler jig (instead the router mounted bushing bottoms out in the slot on the Rockler jig). I have another jig similar to the Rockler that I used to use. It is in some ways easier but also less versatile than the HF jig. The other jig I have won't really work right with 1/2 BB plywood, for instance, because it is less than 1/2 thick. The sockets in the front are always too deep and there is no adjustability to compensate. The HF jig works fine with 1/2 bb.

Jarhead,

I pointed you to some pictures in my response above (my dovetailing setup post in the shop section). I will admit they are not very good - I am somewhat pictorially challenged. I may write something for the articles section some day on dovetails but it will take me awhile. The pictures in the better manual for these type of jigs are also pretty useful. I think the problem is that if you've never seen it done, you need to be walked step by step through the process and none of the manuals (nor my post) is really that complete. My experience is that once you achieve some degree of success it all starts to make some sense.

Jim

[Jeffrey Schronce]

Jeffrey,

Alex is right, the bushing is 7/16. I do not have my manual with me at the moment but a 1/2 bushing makes no sense since I remember I use the same one with the Grizzly template which has only 7/16 wide slots.
Jim

I used 7/16. I confused 1/2" Template with 1/2" Bushing. I was saying that the 1/2" Bushing would have been different, but I was confused. I used 7/16 OD and that seems to be right.

[Holbren]

That bit in my set is a 14 degree and as Loring said is the most popular. I opted for just that one dovetail rather than fill the set for a bunch lower cost bits that most people don't use.

If your not going to hog out the inside with a straight bit first, take it slow. The 1/4" shank solid carbide bit in the set would be good removing material.

I'll send you one of my orange colored 1/4" shank dovetail bits if you need one but feed them slow too as they are more prone to breakage.

[Lee4847]

Same mistake here!!

I made enouf kindling to last the winter before I figured out that the 1/2 inch jig needed a 1/2 in bit AND a 7/16 collar!!. I was at work when the light came on.. had to take the rest of the day off and come home and walla!! It worked.

[Popeye]

Ok Jeff,
After reading all this...... did you get it nuked out?? I just uncrated my HF jig after a year of gathering dust. Use the Woodtec instructions with my old Dewalt router and PC bushings. Took and hour or so....Started with two 6" x 24" boards and ended up with two 6" x 12" boards but I did get reasonable fitting joints. Now I hope I don't need that router before I need to make my first real drawers. Hate to mess with the depth setting again. Pat

[John Hunter]

The mention of the proper guides reminded me of what I forgot to mention: I use the Millscraft turnlock base & guides on my dovetail setup. I like them because I can cut the plastic guide down with a hand-held coping saw to fit. All the other guides I had were too tall.

And you're right not working angry. Either clean the shop or work on the woodpile with an axe and make firewood.

I too use the Millscraft turnlock system and I cut the 1/2" guide down to fit the height of the HF jig. Worked great for me.

[newood2]

I honestly like to enjoy woodworking, not spending the 10 hours I have trying to get some marginal piece of equipment to work.

I spent 50 hours over a 2-week span setting up and trying to make a decent dovetail joint with the HF jig. during that learning period(my first time at this thing) I was going through the same frustrations. But in my final attempt I figured this is just a mechanical tool and I WILL have the upper hand. So I start to take slow deep breaths, walk away for an hour, tell some joke to friends, think of more important things. Sometimes I would say nice things to the darn jig like "I know you only cost $29 but you're worth much more than that, so please work for daddy" and "You were on my mind all night". Watch out Dr. Phil!
I also got some great help from the folks on this forum, and now I,m cranking out some sweet halfblind dovetail joints, and they're smoking(pun intended).
So don't through in the towel yet man, go in the shop and show that piece of lifeless metal object who is boss.

First consultation is free of cost
Howie

[jhart]

John, thanks for the link to Woodshop demos. Excellent tutorial on the Rockler through DT jig.
I bought the jig about two weeks ago, opened it up and went through the instructions and was very disappointed with both the detail and the lousy pictures. The site you referenced was super.
Had enough troubles with the half blind jig, and was thinking about taking the through jig back, but this review give me more confidence about going through the learning process.

[Jeffrey Schronce]

Brian, I appreciate the offer but if I need any other bits I will just buy them off your site. Nice offer though, and I appreciate the follow up on the bit included in your set.
Newood2, there is no way I can spend 50 hours learning the technique. I'm good for a few more hours until I move on to another system. I do like the Dr. Phil thing and I can break out the Southern accent and all!
There will be a follow up post to this thread one of the these days . . . .
Thanks guys!

[MBG]

Jeff - About a year ago I got the HF jig and used it once to see how it worked. Worked with it for almost an hour and still didn't have a great joint. Then recently I purchased the P-C 4212 (when Amazon had the $80 off flub-up). WOW what a difference - I was making great fitting DT's right out of the box. This unit even has a built-in depth setting gage. I was so happy with the results I immediately used it to build some drawers for a shop cabinet. I'm a woodworking hobbiest and don't want to spend lots of time setting up a DT jig every time I casually use it. I highly recommend the P-C unit.

http://www.porter-cable.com/index.asp?e=547&p=5839

Mike