Putting It Back Together

**tohellwithuga** · 10-30-2013, 11:54 AM

And here is my first shot at a new layout:

- I realized that I don't need all 4 sets of shelves. So, I put 2 of them back together at about the same place, and broke 2 of them down to make four 2'x4' benches.

- I was thinking of building a mobile panel storage cart and keeping it under my fixed wall-mounted wood rack (in the corner that has the partial poured concrete wall).

- Then, between that and the shelves, I would place my dust collector.

- To the right of the shelves, I would move my metal bench w/ drawers (and a fixed vise, which is not necessarily in the right place any more). One problem with putting the bench here, though, is that the wall behind is concrete, so I would have to run some conduit to get power. I am still thinking about switching around the panel storage and this bench, but for now, I went with this.

- I am thinking about taking my miter saw off of the MSUV and placing it in between 2 of the benches to make a miter station (it is shown on top of the benches in the image below).

- Bench top items (drill press, band saw, grinder, etc.) would go on the other 2 sets of benches (with the smaller / less used items being put away when not in use).

- I have shown the PC pancake compressor on a shelf between the exterior doors, with a wall-mount hose reel (still thinking about this placement, though). I am also thinking of putting a small item on the floor between the doors, but I haven't figured out what that should be yet (shown with a router table for now).

- Pegboard storage above each of the sets of benches.

(Edited to move the hose reel to ceiling, and center of room)

**cork58** · 10-30-2013, 01:20 PM

One thing that comes to mind is the hose reel, I would put it on the ceiling. Mine is in the center of my shop and I use it all over the darn place. Also don't forget about water draining from the pipe used to run the air supply to the reel.

Something else came to mind just now. When I was putting mine together I used a cleat system for anything that was on a wall. Sure glad I did, for a year after putting things where I knew I wanted them I finally had them where they really needed to be.

**tohellwithuga** · 10-30-2013, 01:50 PM

Good point on the hose reel, I will definitely do that (ceiling mount, somewhere around center of room). Thanks!

**tohellwithuga** · 10-30-2013, 02:36 PM

The comment about the cleat system reminds me, I have been looking at maybe doing pegboard all the way around (except concrete walls, etc.), with paneling up 32" or so, something like this (although not this fancy):

Or all the way to the ceiling like this:

I'm not sure what to do about the electrical outlets then, though, as I was going to mount them high and low about every 3-4' around the room (plus dedicated dust collector, and maybe others). The high outlets would fall behind the pegboard, so I would either need to cut big holes for access, or get box extenders and mount the outlets to the surface of the pegboard itself, or mount the pegboard above the outlets (which would be pretty high). Or, as a final option, I guess I could use the pegboard itself in place of sheetrock (or plywood/osb), and just mount it to the studs (shimmed out a little) over the insulation.

**MBG** · 10-30-2013, 04:53 PM

First off, you would need to upgrade that tube TV and stereo/amp

.

Mike

**Warren** · 10-30-2013, 06:15 PM

Between the doors: Clamp rack?

**cwsmith** · 10-30-2013, 06:58 PM

Personally, I don't like peg board. I know it was all the rage in a lot of shops that I had seen when I was a teen (fifty years ago), but it always seemed an expense with having to buy the hardware variety of hooks, etc.

It also didn't seem to be a long term method to me. Can't say that I had any good reasons for that feeling back at that time, but in the old house we bought a few years ago, there is peg-board in the garage. Still works, sort of, but is ugly, sort of warped in spots and some of the holes are worn. The hardware is okay and showing no real corrosion, but it looks rather old and has a gray sort of oxidation.

When I build my shop next summer (expanding off the side of the garage), I think I'm going to go with a cleat-like system. Planning to bevel-cut the edge of 1 x 4 stock and place a double band around the shop, just above bench height.

That way I can make custom tool-boards for hanging whatever tools, and then be able to appropriatly position them near where they are needed; AND then relocate them as my wants dictate.

I think that will be less prone to dust collection and spider nesting and be a lot easier to clean and maintain.

CWS

**tohellwithuga** · 10-30-2013, 07:28 PM

Originally posted by Warren

Between the doors: Clamp rack?

Yeah, I had the same thought earlier. That wouldn't have the chance of getting in the way of the doors, either. Another good idea, thanks.

**tohellwithuga** · 10-30-2013, 07:58 PM

So, after looking around a bit, I am starting to warm up to the idea of a french cleat system (thanks cork58 and cwsmith). Really liking the possibilities. Plus, I wouldn't have to worry so much about the outlet locations.

MBG, I think they have the same tube TV here, lol:

You can't really do this with pegboard:

And who says that I can't make a smaller pegboard rack and attach it to the cleat system, to have both if I want:

**mpc** · 10-30-2013, 09:27 PM

No real suggestions... but some things to consider from my lessons learned pile:

1: right now your dust collector (DC) looks to be pretty far away from everything. Will it work very well with long ducting? And are you planning on running duct pipes through the shop or do you use the "move the flex hose to the current tool" technique (like me)? At first glance of your layout, I'd consider putting the dust collector where you have the trash can (or is that a shop vac?) or router table in your pic; basically close to exterior doors. At least that way you can roll it outside when changing bags to minimize the mess and it'll be closer to the power tools you've shown. Also, if your current DC has typical 5 to 30 micron filter bags, it's going to constantly cover your wood storage area in fine dust. Sorting through pieces is going to become an uncomfortable experience.

2: I'm a big fan of roll-around tool cabinets. My shop is mostly Baltic Birch boxes on locking castors. Each provides a lot of storage and lets me move that tool around if/when I need to work on a large or otherwise oddball shaped workpiece. And I can wheel it close to the DC too.

3: Some benchtop tools can easily share a spot. Smaller bandsaws and drill presses can often happily co-exist back-to-back on a single work cart. Things like bench grinders, benchtop sanders, etc. also can often share one worktop by facing different directions.

4: Your drawings don't show a typical woodworker style workbench with vices, bench dogs, etc. Clamping to shelving units may or may not be enough depending on the type of work you do. I gather the metal shelf+bench unit is your main working area from your comments? My bench is against a wall, underneath a multi-paged pegboard system. It's also on wheels (the wheel kit specifically for workbenches that Rockler sells - it works fine for me) for those times when I really need 4-sided access to a project. Having at lease two work surfaces, as your drawing currently shows, is almost a necessity: one place for project assembly, one place for using benchtop tools and hand tools. In my case, the BT3 and its extension table typically end up being the assembly table as well as being the router table. I only have one real bench... probably my biggest nuisance right now. If you have windows, I'd try to put the working area close to it: natural light is so nice, as is a cool breeze. Looking at your diagrams, could the shelf units currently supporting the bandsaw and drill press be moved away from the wall a bit to become an assembly table instead? Move those tools to a cart of their own as they don't need a long table for stock support. Or use the shelf units currently supporting the miter saw as the assembly & finishing table since it's near a door/window for ventilation... pull that one away from the wall, put the miter saw where the drill press & bandsaw are currently shown, and move them to a smaller shared cart.

5: I've got a pretty decent sized shop area right now (shared though with my other hobby: working on my cars) but I still have the mentality that grew from working in a 2-car garage that had to store 2 cars every night. That mentality makes me cringe any time I see potential storage space not being used: splayed-leg stands under the table saw, router tables on legs, etc. Ergo my propensity to put everything possible on a box stand of some sort. It's nice having the table saw blades stored right at the saw, as well as the push sticks, Gripper, etc. Cabinets with doors or drawers rule in my shop!

mpc

JR · 10-30-2013, 10:25 PM

Planer / jointer, drum/disk sander, scroll saw, shop air filter

Yes to all those.

I'd suggest thinking about a multi-purpose outfeed/assembly table for the tablesaw. This could perform the woodworker's bench function, which I agree is necessary. It should have drawers for sharp tools, small powered tools, sandpaper, glue, finishing miscellany, etc. It should have easily accessible power, bench dogs, end/tail vises. Your clamps should be nearby or on a mobile rack.

It looks like a fun project!

**tohellwithuga** · 10-30-2013, 10:57 PM

Wow, thanks for the detailed reply, mpc.

1: Re: dust collector location: I do indeed currently use the "move the flex hose to the current tool" technique, which is part of the reason that it is in the back corner. I put it there mostly because it is out of my normal pathway - putting it in the corner near the exterior double doors seems like it would have a greater chance of getting in the way / tripped over (but, I probably just need to be better about putting it away neatly and promptly).

But, your point about the dust is well taken - this is perhaps one of the main culprits of my recent mold problems. As you mentioned, I had a fine dust covering all of my shelves, which provided a perfect environment for the mold to feed on. And, the dust collector was right there with those shelves, so it was probably the source.

So... I am going to give this suggestion a shot. I will redo the layout with the DC in the corner near the double doors.

2: Roll-around cabinets - I'm a fan, too (at least, a fan of the photos I've seen), I've just never had the time to build them. Maybe I should give it more consideration. I guess part of my reasoning is, I have thought that I might upgrade many of the benchtop tools at some point, so I would feel like the effort to build the cabinets was wasted. Plus, they take up valuable floor space. With many of the benchtop tools, I can move them to a shelf or other location if I need the bench space (not ideal, but doable).

I do, however, love the idea of the mobile cabinets, and will think about them seriously for the benchtop tools.

3: Great point about benchtop tools sharing a location. Again, I had thought about putting the unused tools up on a shelf when not used, but this is definitely another option. Maybe I could turn one (or more) of my bench/shelves 90 degrees into the room to do this. I will play around with the layout.

4a: The "typical woodworker style workbench with vices, bench dogs, etc." is something I have thought about and wanted for a long time (but again, just haven't had the chance to build / set it up). (And as I type this post, I see that JR is also suggesting this.) So, maybe now is the time to do this. I was actually just looking at this on sketchup when I saw your post (with some added storage / drawers / etc.):

"I gather the metal shelf+bench unit is your main working area from your comments?" - well, it hasn't been. My main working area was a combo panel storage / bench similar to this (from an old Family Handyman article):

Unfortunately, the mold had taken root deep in all of the wood (I never finished it properly) so I ended up getting rid of it. So, I actually have never used the "half-shelves" as a bench before, but I was going to try it (at least to start). Again, maybe I will rethink that. And, to your point, it only had access from one side, and actually had a smaller work surface than the setup I was thinking about using, so probably no big loss.

Another side note: You mentioned your "multi-paged pegboard system" - it is anything like this? (from the same Family Handyman article that I got the panel storage bench idea from):

4b: No windows. Lots of overhead lights, and the half glass 32" exterior door are my only light sources (of course, nothing says I can't add a window...)

4c: I could switch the miter saw and benchtop tools, but I was thinking about putting the miter saw on a stand in between the benches, like this (top):

So, with the door located where it is on the near wall, I wouldn't have room for that still. The door could move (some), though (I don't really want to move the subpanel). And, I wouldn't necessarily have to use both benches for support (or I could just put the miter saw on top as shown in the original photo). So, I think I could make it work.

Anyway... good thoughts! It has given me a lot to think about. I really appreciate all the feedback!

**mpc** · 10-31-2013, 01:32 AM

My pegboard pages are a bit different from the Family Handyman ones you noted. I described it a few days ago in a different thread:
my pegboard pages
Ignore the drawing at the bottom; that's part of my reply to that thread and isn't part of my pegboard pages.

Looking at the FH pic you posted, it appears they used small spacer blocks to raise hinges so the leaves can lay flat across each other. I built up a vertical staircase that runs the entire height of my unit for the same purpose. And each page is a little wider than the one below it because of the stair-step. Like the FH one appears to be, mine is based on a 1x4 frame attached to wall studs. I put a rabbet in my wall frame, and on both sides of each page frame, for the pegboard. The stair-step piece runs vertically in the center of the wall frame on my setup. The main things to keep in mind:
a) strength of the hinges obviously.

b) the stair-step heights need to be pretty large so pegboard hooks from the facing pages don't collide. I ended up removing one set of inner pages on mine so I could use deeper hooks on the fixed wall-mounted page. The removed pages will be re-used on another unit that (one day) I'll build for the car repair side of the garage.

c) if your walls aren't plumb it's possible the pages will want to flop open... whacking you in the head while you work. If the lower hinge is on a slightly thicker block (i.e. slighty further out from the wall surface) than the upper hinge that should compensate.

I've been quite satisfied with my setup - it works well for me. Folks that have seen it have made favorable comments and one friend copied it for his garage/shop. His wife wondered if it could be adapted to an upper kitchen cabinet to store all sorts of long kitchen utensils. She has a tall cabinet just to the left of her stove top; there is space directly above the stove top thanks to the vent fan. So she wondered if that cabinet door could be tweaked to actually be the front and side of the cabinet; i.e. when opened the side of the cabinet over the stove would also be open. Then the inside of the cabinet would be a few hinged pages holding the long kitchen utensils. Conceptually simple... but he wasn't sure he'd be able to cut the sides of the existing cabinet cleanly enough.

mpc

**JimD** · 10-31-2013, 06:49 AM

We're moving and I'm loosing my dedicated shop, at least temporarily, in the process. So I'm thinking similar thoughts. I am moving the BT3100 to a smaller base without the extension rails. I have a DeWalt track saw and I think I can live without the extended rip capacity. Totally locking casters from caster city will be on the new base (I have the casters, just haven't had the time to finish the base). One thing I will miss about my current shop is a long bench - over 8 feet - for the 12 inch CMS and radial arm saw. I have a fence the length of the bench with flip stops for repeated cuts. The fences of the RAS and CMS align so the stops work for both. I'm not sure what the cross cut setup of the new "shop" (garage) will be, probably mobile. I may switch to a Sliding miter saw but I like the RAS for roughing tenons on long pieces which the sliding saws won't do. I like my 12 inch CMS + RAS combo but it will be challenging to build into a mobile cabinet. I've decided my old home built bandsaw can go but I need my floor mounted drill press. I'm undecided on my old Inca 8 5/8 jointer planner. The Ryobi AP-10 is definitely coming as is the Jet benchtop mortiser. I'm toying with the idea of putting the AP-10 and Jet into one flip top mobile stand. Neither gets used on every project and definitely get used on different stages of the project when they are both used.

Another idea from my old shop that might get used in my new and seems applicable to you is waferboard for the walls. It was about the same price as wallboard when I put it in. I skim coated it with joint compound to smooth it a bit and painted it white. I can then screw anything I want to the wall anywere I want. Seems better than cleats or pegboard to me. A quick look does not reveal it isn't wallboard. I initially had it on the ceiling too but code requires 5/8 fire rated drywall for ceilings of garages so I switched that. My existing shop is a third garage in the basement with 8.5 foot ceiling. My future shop may be a third garage too but if it is, I am thinking I will want to park the third car there too. So I think the tools are highly likely to stay on mobile bases.

Putting It Back Together

Putting It Back Together

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