Any licensed electricians out there?

[LCHIEN]

Well, some of us do "live in our shops"



What will you operate at the same time, though? You need enough current (Amps) to operate all the loads you will run simultaneously. NEC allows for derating, based on the assumption that not everything is turned on and maxed out at the same time.

I would calculate the "worst case" load - lights, HVAC, tools you will run simultaneously, etc. - and increase by a "fudge factor" - maybe 20% - to guesstimate the real current requirements. I imagine your cooling load is pretty high down there, so HVAC draw is likely to be significant, but otherwise 100A is likely more than enough. Just for reference, a 10KW portable gas generator (roughly 86A @ 115 VAC) is under $1,000 on Amazon. Stationary propane generators cost more, but unless I was going to use the shop a LOT, I'd opt for gas or diesel. You could probably have a storage tank installed so you didn't have to refill it with small gas cans.

definately don't make the mistake of getting an amp rating based on the sum of your equipment nameplate AMps. For example, I doubt you will be using a 50A welding rig at full capacity at the same time you are running a 30A table saw and 15A dust collector and 8A bandsaw etc. Worst case you will run either a welder alone or a table saw and a dust collector together. Then allow some more power for things that will be on or come on while working, such as a air conditioner and a air compressor and a refrigerator.

[nmguy]

See if you can go to 400 425 amp on your existing service. some of the grid designs in texas allow you run up to 400 amps for residential. I've done a few home there that had 400 amp service in Ft worth and Dallas. If you can then all you would need to do is go undergound to your shop with Tri-plex from a seconed panel. I was very surprised by this when the utility told me in Ft worth. I wish it was like that in NM. 240 only, thats it, then I need engineering approval from the state for anthing above that for residential. You guys in Texas have it made the way the power grid is designed.

Looking at your power needs and a quick and dirty load calculation for 240, there is no way by the NEC code that you can power an additionl building with 240. With 400-425 Amps you will have more than enough. find out if your home has 400 amp service or what could be done to bring it up to 400 amps other than running all thse service drops.

[conscience]

I know you said you have a dense tree canopy, but could you run it overhead near your house? Even if you had to take some limbs or a tree down, it might help clear some of your obstacles and would be a whole lot less expensive than a new meter/service. And you could possibly run it to a pole that would then provide a potentially different route to the shop to try and bypass other obstacles.

[LCHIEN]

i just got a northern tool and equip catalog in the last couple of days.
Looked up Generac (top brand name for fixed location generators) Generators and a 18KW Natural gas generator including transfer switch runs $4599 and would give you 75A at 240V or 150A at 120V.

Still need:
You'd probably need to run 3/4" (check with manufacturer) or so gas line to your building.
A subpanel in the shop

Advantages of this: instead of nearly $10,000 of installation costs which you can't ever recover, you have a generator which you can sell if you ever need to.

[BadeMillsap]

The generator was an early consideration ... I dismissed it at the time because I don't really get the advantage of backup for my house unless I suffer thru the same line running/trenching problems I have if I try to run the shop from an upgraded service into the house. ... BUT ... it may still be a viable option to consider ... I don't have LNG service out where I live ... I do have a large propane tank that is currently unused (was for spa on pool) ... I'd have to see if it has to be somehow 're certified' (don't know if that is required for propane tanks like we have to regularly hydro SCUBA tanks.

The $5000 for a generator setup doesn't negate the cost of the building wiring so that part is a wash ... basically it's about $5k (generator) vs ~$3.5k utility company with some additional POSSIBLE side benefit on the side of the generator in the future.

I'm waiting on the bid from my 2nd electrical contractor and I made it clear to him this was a bare bones low budget operation ... we shall see.

Thanks for the comments and ideas ... it all helps as I move towards the goal.

[cabinetman]

I'm waiting on the bid from my 2nd electrical contractor and I made it clear to him this was a bare bones low budget operation ... we shall see.

That would be a smart move, maybe even get a third and fourth. My BIL bought 10 acres out in the sticks in the north Florida area. His nearest neighbor was about a ¼ mile away. It was so desolate, he had to put in his own road to the property. Getting the utilities he needed was very expensive, including impact fees. I think he did extensive research to get it all done.

.

[LCHIEN]

looking back at your orig post I see that the costs of getting power to your shop amounts to about $3000, and that the $10,000 number you threw out ($8400 bid) is for the entire cost of getting power to the shop and internal wiring.

I just posted because i said in an earlier post that the gen set was $10K and I saw it for $4600. I agree that $5000 (generator and Pad) Plus cost of tank refurb or running a gas line would be considerably more than $3000. And the Electric service is more or less totally maintenance free vs. refueling and periodic maintenance fro the genset.

OTOH DIY wiring on a framed building is not too hard - maybe you could save significantly on the $8400 electrician cost by installing the panel and branch wiring yourself and letting the electrician wire the input to the panel and doing a check on your work.

[JimD]

This probably doesn't help but I have a customer who built himself a nice house on a lake in Canada. He wants to retire there, his wife isn't on-board. He put in a generator because the local utility wanted a huge amount, I think it was $250K, to extend a line to him. He's hoping other people will build homes closer to his so they can go together and get the line extended. But for now he is on a generator. His cell phone service was also a problem but he had a plan on how to fix that. I need to visit with him again and see how that is working.

Jim

[cabinetman]

OTOH DIY wiring on a framed building is not too hard - maybe you could save significantly on the $8400 electrician cost by installing the panel and branch wiring yourself and letting the electrician wire the input to the panel and doing a check on your work.

That's the way I've done shop wiring, with work requiring permits and inspections.

.

[BizCoach]

One other thing to keep in mind. If you ever want to sell the property (or your heirs do) it will be a problem if things aren't up to code. Just sayin'.

[jseklund]

+1 on doing the shop wiring yourself. In most areas, the code dictates that electricians only require a license when they are for hire. You can do all of your wiring in this case and pull the permits yourself. In my area, many of the towns still give you a hard time if you try this route - but the hybrid suggestion above has worked well for me.

In my dad's shed, I paid someone to dig a trench, put the wire and pipe in the trench myself, installed the sub-panel (not live), ran wires in the shed, put a junction box in the house and ran the wires from the subpanel in the shed to the junction box, then a piece of romex from the junction box back to the main panel.

I then paid an electrician about $200 to come bang the wires into the main breaker box in the house, and wire up the subpanel in the shed. He pulled permits himself along the way and put his license on everything and checked over my work when I was done. Of course he was a friend so he may have given me a little break - but really he probably spent about 2-4 hours total including pulling the permits, etc.

My dad said that when the electrical inspector came from the town to sign off on it, he looked at the wiring in the shed and made a comment about how well done it was...he had no clue it wasn't even the electrician who did it all, haha.