GFCI in the workshop

[os1kne]

My "shop" is an attached garage. I'm planning to add 2 outlet circuits for tools using 12/3 and double gang outlet boxes (common neutral wire). My thought was that I would be able to use 2 high amp tools simultaneously (TS or MS and shop vac) without a problem and if I ever want/need a 240 outlet, it would be easy to do so.

Due to the fact that my driveway slopes toward the garage doors, a couple of times/year I get about a 1/2inch of water on the garage floor. (There is a "bump" at the garage door threshhold that minimizes this, the water runs straight to the floor drain - it's never been a big problem and we will probably be moving in the next 2-3 years, so we probably won't put in a grated trench.)

So, back on topic, I've been thinking about having the 1st outlet for each circuit be GFCI as a precaution - is this a good/bad idea in a shop environment?

Thank you.

[Uncle Cracker]

In your case, what with the standing water and all, it's probably a good idea. Make sure your GFCI outlets are rated for the amps you may use at those outlets. One other alternative is to use GFCI breakers at the breaker box, which might make things easier to install, and easier to test and reset, depending on what you end up stacking in front of those outlets...

[Ed62]

I can't think of a downside to it, but it could prove very beneficial.

Ed

[dbhost]

I am not 100% certain, but I think GFCI is required by code for garages in most areas as it is considered an "outdoor" space...

Even without code, they are an excellent idea. I have GFCI on mine and it has already saved my bacon twice... (safety tip, check your extension cords!).

[LarryG]

Dave is correct: it's not only a good idea, it's code. The NEC stipulates (roughly: don't have a copy immediately at hand) that all outlets in garages and buildings used as shops which have their entrances at grade have ground fault protection. There used to be exceptions for outlets that are not normally accessible (i.e., on the ceiling for a garage door opener, or behind a freezer, for the dedicated use of said freezer) but even those have been eliminated now.

[os1kne]

Thank you.

Would it be possible to have a 240V outlet downstream of the GFCI outlets? I know how to do the wiring, but I don't know if a shared neutral downstream of the GFCI would cause problems.

Thanks again.

[JBCrooks]

You may want to run 2 12/2 wires instead of sharing the neutral on the 12/3. GFCIs can be very picky about the neutral load even upstream. I know it should work, but it doesn't.

[dbhost]

FWIW, you might consider adding a GFCI breaker instead of the outlet. Would fulfill the code requirement, and I believe would work with 220v but somebody with more electrical experience than me should speak to that...

I only knew about the requirement for GFCI in garages as it applies in Galveston County. When I bought my house they were not required, I put the house on the market in 2004 with the idea of moving out west (that fell apart) and GFCI was at that time required to sell the house...

[JSUPreston]

Dave is correct: it's not only a good idea, it's code. The NEC stipulates (roughly: don't have a copy immediately at hand) that all outlets in garages and buildings used as shops which have their entrances at grade have ground fault protection. There used to be exceptions for outlets that are not normally accessible (i.e., on the ceiling for a garage door opener, or behind a freezer, for the dedicated use of said freezer) but even those have been eliminated now.

Looks like a trip to the BORG is in order...I need 2 GFCI's.

Then again, the way my schedule has been, water has been in the shop more than me this year.

[master53yoda]

please bear in mind that it is against the current NEC code to feed two 120 volt circuits with a common neutral......

It works if you do not get both circuits on the same leg, but it is against code

What you might consider is putting in a small panel in the shop and feeding that panel with a 240 Volt GFCI. I would also feed it with nothing smaller then a 40 amp using an isolated neutral bar and a separate ground bar in the shop panel. This would give you the ability to handle most anything you will want in the shop down line.

Good luck

[os1kne]

please bear in mind that it is against the current NEC code to feed two 120 volt circuits with a common neutral......

It works if you do not get both circuits on the same leg, but it is against code

What you might consider is putting in a small panel in the shop and feeding that panel with a 240 Volt GFCI. I would also feed it with nothing smaller then a 40 amp using an isolated neutral bar and a separate ground bar in the shop panel. This would give you the ability to handle most anything you will want in the shop down line.

Good luck

Thanks. I wasn't aware that was against code. (I've seen it done several times - I suspect that a lot of the 12/3 sales go for this purpose - but that doesn't make it right.) I'd been considering putting in a 60 amp subpanel, but had almost decided against it. We've been in our home for 5 years and will likely be moving in the next 3 years. I've "gotten by" for this long, adding 2-3 circuits will be more than enough to get me through the next few years. However, I do tend to "overkill" most home improvements when the additional cost isn't significant - the cost of a small subpanel and the 6ga. wire isn't too bad, so I'll probably just bite the bullet and do that. edit: also need to get the 240v GFCI breaker.

[LinuxRandal]

Let me ask something along these lines.

If one has a run, that is protected by a GFCI outlet, can one put another GFCI outlet in the run?

(example, outlet in the bathroom, GFCI protected, up to a couple of outlets in an attic, for worklights, then outside to another GFCI)

Thanks

[LCHIEN]

Let me ask something along these lines.

If one has a run, that is protected by a GFCI outlet, can one put another GFCI outlet in the run?

(example, outlet in the bathroom, GFCI protected, up to a couple of outlets in an attic, for worklights, then outside to another GFCI)

Thanks

it seems to me that technically you can. In normal operation (no ground fault) there will be no adverse effect. However, its totally redundant (with no improvement in protection) and makes troubleshooting more complicated. I don't see any advantage except if you trip it often at the end, you don't have to walk as far to reset it. But it'll also be a crapshoot as to which one trips (or possibly both) because any ground fault imbalance at the end will be present in both, so that doesn't even work.
And, you shouldn't be tripping it that often or somethings wrong.

[Uncle Cracker]

Let me ask something along these lines.

If one has a run, that is protected by a GFCI outlet, can one put another GFCI outlet in the run?

(example, outlet in the bathroom, GFCI protected, up to a couple of outlets in an attic, for worklights, then outside to another GFCI)

Thanks

The one at the end will only be protecting that outlet, which is already protected by the one at the beginning. Hence no improvement.

[LinuxRandal]

Hence no improvement.

Less walk. Seems like an improvement to me (on my feet an average 14 hours a day). Thanks