Designing The Nearly-Perfect Shop

[SARGE..g-47]

My shop is two shops.. a double garage and a 1/2 basement. I have two metal columns in the garage that have to be worked around. The cyclone sits next to one and is tied in on one side using the column as a support. The natural gas space heater gets the call on the other column on one side with an 18" BS on the other.

Columns are not ideal as mentioned so.. I take what I have and use it to the maximum with all major chip producers (TS.. BS.. 20" planer) circling the cyclone with the exception of the 8" jointer. It... along with everything is on a mobile base and can be rolled up to the cyclone in under a minute.

I do like the fact I installed two 20 A lines... one down each wall with an outlet every 4 feet apart 42" up. And I installed two 220 V 10 gauge lines for large machines in both 3 HP and 5 HP. If you run a 3-5 HP and get a cyclone you will need 2 220 V's as we mentioned in a PM. Those machines in combined usage will pull more than 30 A so one 20 A or 30 A is not enough.

Plenty of lighting.. outlets well though out.. mobility.. well placed machines to take advantage of both the cyclone and extentions as I do long stock.. use of every inch of space... etc. are the strong points. If I could change my shop it would be to a 40 x 60 with a separated finish area.

So... I cannot reccomend anything else in your case as you didn't mention the size you were going to make it? If not all that large.. yes you need to plan carefully, very carefullly.. if large you have room for error and re-arrangement on the fly. So... outlets and lighting galore is my only suggestion which applies to any size shop.

Good luck....

[rnelson0]

I ran electrical outlets around the circumference of my garage. Unfortunately, there is a steel beam and some support posts that bisect it. On one end, I ran the conduit over the post, then along the back wall, then stopped it a few inches before the post on the outer wall. I wish I had extended this. When I want to work outside, I now have to use the 50' extension cord because the 15' is just a *wee* bit too short. If you are building from ground up, I would suggest some sockets on the outside in case you feel like working outself. It can be really gorgeous here, and who wants to sand indoors where you have to breath every bit of the dust that escapes collection?

Speaking of sanding, I built a nice open workbench. This was always "version 1" with a plan to build a proper workbench with a hutch and everything later, but I wish I had added some doors and a back panel. It is very easy to push something small off the back, which means I need to remove everything underneath and crawl down there to get it. Second, everything is covered in dust. I do my best to clean it up, but you know how that goes. If I were to suggest "Top 10 Rules For Workshop Building", near the top would be "put everything behind a door to keep the dust out". Cabinets, drawers, a separate room, whatever it takes.

[Tom Slick]

smaller lighting in the correct places is more effective than lots of lighting in the wrong places. It's easy to layout a simple lighting system that causes you to always work in your shadow, exactly what you don't want. If you come up with a tool layout I'll gladly help you with designing an efficient lighting system.

I can also help you design a compressed air layout, there are some small simple design details that can make the system function much better.

I prefer conduit in shop spaces. It makes changing the electrical system later on much easier.

Electrical drops from the ceiling are much better and safer than extension cords

try to incorporate skylights, they will help a lot.

If you can, put your dust collector out side. Then your filters don't make as much difference because you are not breathing filtered/dusty air. The down side is you need a source for makeup air which is cold in the winter.

Attempt to make all of the tools and workbenches the same height, that way any workbench or cart can become an extension table.

Think about what tools are often used one after the other and place them near each other. for instance if you typically use the jointer after the tablesaw don't place them on opposite ends of the shop.

Insulating the shop will cut down on condensation which will cut down on rust.

Think about how you are going to process long material. Maybe the mitersaw needs to be inline with the door so if you occasionally have a long board it can stick out of the door while it is being cut down, you may be able to plan on less space for the mitersaw.

When placing the shop think about the direction the wind blows and the sun shines. You may or may not want the wind to blow through the shop every time the door is opened. you may or may not want to utilize the sun heating the building.

Think about cross ventilation with doors and windows. You might not want any windows in the shop, think about how dirty shop windows get and how much time you spend looking out of them. They also take up wall space. an extra door may be a better option.

think about where your electrical panel is going to located and its accessibility, you need to be able to get to it easily in an emergency.

[master53yoda]

There are 2 things that I have done in my shop that I would not change.

1. One is that the lights are on a motion sensor as I didn't have the opportunity for 3-way switching with more then one entry point they come on whether I come in the front or back of the shop. I have switched spot lighting over some of my tools.

2. My filter system for the fine dust control is connected to the lighting circuit and runs anytime I am in the shop. I have very little air born dust as the filter is home-made and puts out about 1400 CFM which is equal to 3 jet air filters and has the inlet air ducted to multiple locations.

If I was building a shop from scratch I would install a horizontal high efficiency gas furnace with the return air ducting going through a high efficiency filter bank and run the fan continues off of the motion sensor. This would incorporate the HVAC system with the fine dust control.

I have my panel storage close to the large main entry door as well as a panel cutting area. I break the 4x8 sheets down to required size and move them from there into the main shop area. My current shop is a one car garage that is 11 X 42 ' so it isn't easy to handle large sheet goods.

I would place 220v outlets throughout the shop rather then in one place. I find that with only one outlet my planer is limited as to where I can use it.

Pipe compressed air throughout the shop as well as duct control.

Mount the dust collector in the center of the ducting rather then on one end, it will provide much better air flow throughout. Size the ducting large enough for the collector you are using. 6" main lines for 1.5 to 2 hp 8" for 3Hp and 10" for 5 HP. I have seen many duct systems that are too small for the collector that they are hooked to.

then it would be into my wish list so i'll stop.

[SARGE..g-47]

Forgot to mention and Nelson covered it... my two runs down each side with 20 A concerning outside outlets.. I went out the wall to place one under my front steps (about 6' high landing) and one on the other side goes out to under the back deck about 12' tall. The original winds to between a double garage door. One on the inside and one through the wall to cover the driveway which is use often in summer. The front and rear are in a series on the line going out to outlet and the other side comes right back in to continue the run.

And someone else mentioned ceilings... I have 8' and I work around them as I do a lot of long stock but... 10" would be nice. My 1/2 basement ceiling is 12' as the house is on a slope so.. go to go there.

[LarryG]

Thanks much, everyone, for the input. Even though I wasn't really looking for wishlist-type stuff, I have to say there's some good food for thought here. As I alluded to in my OP, I thought I'd have a few more years to fine-tune the design of my dream shop. Now that I'm having to fast-track the project, I'm desperately trying to think of as many things as I can.

At this point there's little that's absolutely firm, but I do have a reasonably good idea of the shop's approximate size and how it will be built. I started the process by drawing up some rudimentary plans for a shell measuring 22'x32' with a 9' wall height, and giving them to a contractor to find out whether there was any hope at all, financially speaking. These dimensions were determined hurriedly, almost by gut instinct: my previous shop was 22'x24' with a seven-foot ceiling, and I figured I needed at least 30% more floor space and two more feet vertically. The contractor's quote was reasonable enough that I will increase the size to at least 22'x36', possibly even longer, and will likely raise the ceiling height to 10'. After working up the initial sketches, I went to work on developing the plan and found that the 22'x32' guesstimate was pretty good ... quite workable, although a little tight in a few places. Adding four feet to the length freed things up considerably; adding even more length opens up the possibility of some completely different arrangements. Size, I am finding, is the most difficult question of all to resolve. I'm trying to make the thing big enough to do what I need it to do, but without going totally overboard. I have to be mindful of what I can afford, both initially and over the coming years; then again, nothing would be worse than to build a brand new shop and quickly come to realize it's two feet too short.

Whatever its overall dimensions end up being, the shell will be wood framed, basically just like a house, and sitting on piers. I've been saying since the day I started thinking about building a dedicated shop that I was NOT going to stand on a concrete slab for the rest of my life, and that's the one design element on which there will be no compromise. Dust collection and electrical will be able go under the floor joists, where appropriate (another reason I insist on a wood floor).

Outside, the building will be sheathed in OSB and wrapped in Tyvek. Vinyl siding to match the house will come later. Luckily, I live in a semi-rural area, outside the city limits, where I can get away with this sort of thing.

Inside there will be, essentially, two spaces: a big room for the machinery and a smaller room for assembly and finishing. My main work bench and torsion box assembly table will both be located in the latter. This room will be small enough (about 10'x14') that I can afford to heat and cool it when necessary, allowing me to work year-round. The larger machine room won't be conditioned initially, and maybe not ever. My experience with my past two shops has shown that I can usually get by with opening the doors and windows and running fans when it's hot, and dressing warmly when it's cold. Also, just having a fully-insulated building -- something I've never had before -- will help a lot.

The roof will clear-span the width of the building. My just-vacated shop had a row of columns down the center, and it would be a toss-up which was more annoying: the seven-foot ceiling height, or those d@mn columns.

One end of the building will have a set of double doors, for bringing materials in and taking completed projects out. A second, single door on one of the long sides will provide day-to-day access. There'll be plenty of windows -- another long-held vow is that I don't want to work inside a black hole, even if windows do cost wall space -- but I don't have their locations nailed down yet.

I'll also have plenty of lighting, plenty of outlets. I installed these items myself in my two previous, rented shops and went with extreme overkill plus ten percent in both cases. I'll follow the same policy for this new building. BTW the shop will be on a separate meter from the house, with a 200A panel.

No running water, at least for now. It's only about 100' to the house and I'm accustomed to walking roughly twice that far, so I can cope. I have vague plans to someday cook up a rainwater catchment system and solar-heated tank, so I can have water for cleaning up and such, but that's down the road.

The plan is to hire the contractor to put up the basic shell and then finish it off myself over time. I'll do the electrical work right away (Priority #1, obviously, to get the shop operational) and however much of the insulation I can afford initially. I'd like to think I can insulate the entire building and cover the inside walls with at least something cheap like OSB, but we'll see. As a minimum, I want to get the assembly/finishing room insulated and finished so that portion of the shop, at least, will be complete.

I'll post a floor plan illustrating my proposed tool layout as soon as things settle down a little more. Again ... many thanks to all.

[JR]

That's going to be a great space, Larry!

I don't know if a steel building would fit your aesthetic, but I have seen some awesome deals lately. Might free up some budget.

I'd also encourage you to look at the plumbing aspect a little harder. A plan that included an eventual 3/4 bath, but perhaps starting with a clean-up sink, would be a strong element, IMHO. Maybe it's just me, but somehow I always manage to start glue-up without first getting a wet rag or sponge. And there's no shortage of caustic elements used in some projects, which might require an urgent rinsing.

Just a couple of thoughts.

JR

[LCHIEN]

ideal shop would have under-floor utilities including power, DC and air. Makes the shop look much cleaner and neater.
if you have a concrete foundation that may take some planning.

having enough space to isolate activities - e.g. clean areas for finishing, sound isolated areas for Air compressor and DC, storage areas, etc.

[Tom Miller]

Running water?

Here's my running water, complete with spigot:




Haven't really felt like I need much more than that, and I go months on a fill. I have a little covered waste bucket on the floor.

Regards,
Tom
p.s. water temperature perfectly controlled to room temp.

[ironhat]

About all I have to offer, and I may have read past this, is to stagger your outlets on different circuits. That way, if you need to use two or more tools at once (can't imagine it, though) you have the amperage to cover your demand. Everything else I had thought of was improved upon by others. Now, get busy and keep us updated (with pics!).

[poolhound]

Larry, I must say I am envious, I hope one day to have a dedicated space for my dream shop but as you are finding starting with a clean sheet has pros and cons. Working around the limitations of a fixed space gives you a boundaries to work within. Building from scratch can cause a good dose of angst and psychitsophrenia!!

As you know my shop must do double duty as a full time garage. Although the footprint is pretty good (~25x25') everythings on wheels. Here is what I like about my setup and things I would change or like to do if I had the opportunity.

Things I like

• Having all my tools on wheels makes different configs easy.
• As a by product of it being the garage we have our drinks fridge in there and its always stocked with water, soda and BEER (end of day only).
• I rewired for power a while back and have plenty where I need it. I ran two circuits to each double outlet and positioned them so at most points in the shop I have access to 4 separate 20A circuits
• My dual beam assy table setup. You and I exchanged a number of posts about this and I know you have your great bench and large Assy table but if you have room for something like this as well it adds some great flexibility for clamping etc.
• Easy access in/out (due to garage door). I am sure you will design yours this way but do have a large entry option.

Things I would like to have

• Proper AC
• Higher ceilings. Mine are just over 8', I think 10' would be about right.
• More free wall space for storage
• A permanetly setep CMS station
• Level floors - Oh how I would love this, working in a garage the slope is a PITA
• wood floor - the concrete kills my feet at the end of the day
• separate areas for major tools, assembly and finishing
• A proper bench with room to work around all sides (I know you have this)
• More tools

[wardprobst]

Larry,

Looks like you are on track. I have two shop areas- one climate controlled former garage 22 x 25 x 9 inside dimension and a metal building 20 x 30 x 12 inside that is insulated with space heating and fans. I do hand work in the first shop and machine work and finishing in the second. I'm not sure of your climate but I can work most of the time in the outside shop.
One thing you may want to consider- the former garage has a 35 x 25 x 15 foot carport attached which provides a real nice area for rough cutting panels and other dusty work. The other is the water situation- I'm right by an outside faucet on both shops and still wish I had a utility sink, not to mention a bathroom.
The high ceilings will be a real treat for you- I went from 8 foot to 9 or more and it's been great.
Best,
DP

[LarryG]

The posts suggesting putting the dust collector outside have me revisiting my heating/cooling strategy. The whole point behind the smaller, conditioned space is so I'll have a comfortable place into which to retreat, and a stable environment for glue-ups and finishing, because I don't think I can afford to heat and cool the entire shop, all the time. I will continue to plan on conditioning the small Assembly/Finishing room. But I'm now wondering whether heating or cooling the balance of the shop (i.e., the large Machine Room) at any time is worthwhile. Good ventilation (something I've never had, in my past shops) will help a lot in the summer; good insulation (likewise) and maybe an extra layer of clothing might be sufficient in the winter (I have found that with even a minimum level of activity, I don't have too much problem staying warm while working; it's been the inability to do glue-ups and finishing that has always brought everything to a screeching halt in cold weather).

Anyway, if I don't heat/cool the Machine Room, then putting the DC outside makes a lot of sense. It would need to be protected from the weather; but I'm going buy a larger air compressor someday, and was planning to put it outdoors, so the weather protection problem is the same, just on a slightly larger scale.

Running water and/or a toilet would definitely be a nice luxury. For years my water solution has been even more rudimentary than Tom's: a quart-sized spray bottle. But there are a couple of problems. We're on a septic system, and I'm not sure I could get a soil line from the shop tied into the existing tank and field lines. The other is feature creep: I keep thinking about the things I'd like to have in this shop, and the thing keeps getting bigger.

And I've actually never minded having to walk back to the house every couple-few hours to use the bathroom -- on the contrary, on many occasions a bathroom break has provided a nice respite from concentrating on the work, or from the noisy machinery, or from the heat or cold of an unconditioned shop. I'm not saying this is a reason to purposely avoid having a bathroom in the shop; I'm just saying that not having a bathroom in the shop is not necessarily all bad.

A utility sink would be most useful, however. I could get a cold water line to it easily enough, and could run the waste into a dry well, separate from the house's septic system. That might be worth planning as a future enhancement. In the meantime I could route the drain into a five-gallon bucket.

All good thoughts, everyone ... keep 'em coming!

[pelligrini]

I'd still try to do HVAC in your smaller finishing space. The main room probably wouldn't need it if you're comfotable most of the time. You can always open up the smaller room to the bigger one in order to take the edge off really hot or cold days.

[Tom Slick]

If you set the DC outside in its own enclosure (put the air compressor with it) you could have two closeable vents to the interior of the shop and exterior of the enclosure. if you want to recycle and warm the air open the interior vent, close the exterior, during warm months do the opposite. Industrial dust collection uses a similar setup to either recycle the air or bring in fresh air.