need guidance regarding flip-top base

[Anna]

I really need a sounding board right now.

I'm in the final stretch of building the flip-top base shown in last month's issue of WorkBench mag. The intent is to use it for the planer, which will then be parked under the miter saw base (not yet built).

After blindly following what I thought were the guidelines for building mobile bases, specifically that the base should be about 4 to 6 inches wider and deeper than the power tool, I've ended up with what seems like a humongous base which is about 27.5" wide and 21" deep. My Delta planer is about 21.5" wide and 13.5" deep.

I know it doesn't sound much, but it really looks big. I already have a band saw and table saw on their individual bases. Still have to build bases for the miter saw and bench top jointer. Then of course I have the Jet JWL-1236 lathe, which I doubt will fit in the shop at all. I'm fast running out of floor space - I'm already thinking of throwing out my 2-month-old bench and building a much smaller one.

Anyway, I'm wondering now if I can put the miter saw on the flip-side of the planer using this base I'm building. I'm not sure about what safety issues I have to consider. I used a 3/4" plywood for the flip-top, edged with 3/4" poplar that's at least 2" wide, using tongue-and-groove. I already have some doubts about the "mechanism" for flipping it over, which are just half-inch bolts on both sides to be used as pivot points. I guess I don't really know if this thing is strong enough to support the two tools.

The other alternative I can think of is to build floating shelves to house the miter saw, drill press and bench grinder. I still have a stack of Wood mag back issues that I bought from eBay that I haven't gone through yet, but I'm wondering if anyone has some suggestions/plans to point me in the right direction.

Thanks for any help.

Anna

[cabinetman]

Anna

I didn't see that article, but I think I know what you're talking about. If I'm wrong - correct me. You want to mount a tool on either side of a lid that rolls over (flips). That when one tool is on top and visible and ready to work the other one is underneath. Am I right?

If this is all correct, I would suggest to have the pivot bolts rotate in a sleeve of some sort, with washers separating the lid from the edge of the box evenly on both sides so the lid rotates freely. As for the weight, you could try what you have since you made it already and see what happens.

I would be interested how you hardwared it. Can you post any pictures of yours or the one from the magazine, or the link for the magazine would be good.



"I'M NEVER WRONG - BUT I'M NOT ALWAYS RIGHT"

[Anna]

Hi, Cabinetman,

Yes, that's basically the idea. I can't find a suitable "sleeve" (the instruction mentions something about a nylon sleeve, but the guys at the hardware stores have no idea what I'm talking about), so I got a hex bolt that has a 2.5-inch length without threads.

I'm attaching a picture from the magazine.

[dlminehart]

I think you'd do better to put something other than the miter saw on the opposite side of the planer. You'll note that the plans for the miter saw stand included supports extending far to the left and right of the miter saw. These supports are extremely useful, and would be lacking on a your proposed version of the fliptop. I'd think the bench grinder would be a more suitable partner to the planer. In either case, having something on top would prevent it slipping under the table shown in the plans . . . but I guess you'll be using your existing workbench instead of the table.

I feel your pain about space! I'm working in a single car garage space, and even after building a shed extension outside to house the DC and air compressor I'm unable to set all the stuff up.

[Anna]

Hi, David,

I wasn't actually planning to use the plans for the miter saw in the magazine. I can't afford to use up any more floor space with the cabinets in that plan, and I thought another stand alone base was going to work. I've even put together an idea for the wings, etc. Now I have to think about hanging shelves instead.

I'm considering the garage wall storage idea from ShopNotes instead of French cleats because this looks like it'll be able to carry more weight. If I go this route, I'll build shelves for the miter saw and grinder, as well as my soon-to-be purchased drill press.

I'm beginning to think that my tool lust is far outstripping my ability to house the tools.

As for my planer base, I'm stuck with it for now. I can always build a new one if this doesn't work out, I guess.

[Jaden]

Hey Anna,

Rockler has a pivit hinge that may be usefull to your project. And as a bonus, they're on-sale right now for $4.99.

http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?p...vit%20hardware

[cabinetman]

Anna

You might consider bushings for your pivoting. You can also get them with an inner bearing. If you search "bushings" you can find something that will work. Some look like this picture - it's a press in fit.



"I'M NEVER WRONG - BUT I'M NOT ALWAYS RIGHT"

[LCHIEN]

I think you'd do better to put something other than the miter saw on the opposite side of the planer. You'll note that the plans for the miter saw stand included supports extending far to the left and right of the miter saw. These supports are extremely useful, and would be lacking on a your proposed version of the fliptop. I'd think the bench grinder would be a more suitable partner to the planer. In either case, having something on top would prevent it slipping under the table shown in the plans . . . but I guess you'll be using your existing workbench instead of the table.

I feel your pain about space! I'm working in a single car garage space, and even after building a shed extension outside to house the DC and air compressor I'm unable to set all the stuff up.

I agreew with David that for a miter saw you will want to have extended wings on either side for cutting large boards. This gives support, keeps the boards straight, and allows stops for repeated cutting. Such a miter stand is best left semi-permanently set up.
Here's my miter station which I can take off the supports and lean against the wall taking up little room. Can set up quickly but I prefer to leave it ready to use:
http://www.bt3central.com/showthread...ighlight=miter
A good tool to place opposite the planer would be a benchtop belt disk sander like the
Ryobi BD4600.

Regarding the Nylon sleeve, it's also called a bushing (or a sleeve or a standoff). It's basically typically a 1/2" diameter rod of nylon (white) with a 1/4" hole drilled through the middle. and cut to length like 3/4" or 1" long. They obviously come in different inside and outside diameters and lengths (the dimensions I gave would probably be what you want for a tool table top pivot) but those hardware store guys are worthless. Lowes, HD or ACE should all have them in those specialty hardware drawers, I've gotten them before. Find 'em by the pictures on the front of the drawers.

The hard, slick nylon will keep the threaded bolts from wearing or eating the hole bigger in the wood as you repeatedly flip the top. Its an inexpensive but effective bearing.

[Papa]

Flip-Top Workcenter

Anna,

For the application you're suggesting, I'd strongly recommend thr Flip-Top WorkCenter design by Wood Magazine shown on the following: http://store.woodstore.net/flwoce.html. It uses a continuous rod set in a dado through the table top and bronze flange bearings (which should be available at hardware stores) in the sides to support the weight.

I used this top/hinge design on my flip-top center, on which I mounted my planer and my belt/disk sander. It moves smoothly without any play. Also, it's important to have tools of roughly equal weight on both sides to make flipping easy.

Hope this is of help.

Warren

[Turaj]

Hey Anna,

Rockler has a pivit hinge that may be usefull to your project. And as a bonus, they're on-sale right now for $4.99.

http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?p...vit%20hardware

Any idea of how much is their load capacity? Rockler web site does not say anything!!!! Except they are strong

[Anna]

Thanks, guys. I didn't know the little sleeves are called bushings. I did walk up and down the hardware aisle looking for something "appropriate". I even went to the plumbing section since that's where I thought tubes and pipes are.

I'm not sure about the Rockler item. It doesn't seem like it was designed for the kind of weight associated with having tools bolted down on the table top. I can imagine it'll work for an ordinary table top, though, with the weight equally distributed, etc.

I am also getting convinced that the miter saw should be in a fixed position. I'll build a floating shelf of some sort that will attach to the wall. It will also be easier to build the wings, rather than have them overhanging a mobile base. Loring, thanks for the pictures of your setup. I really like it, specially since it doesn't look as involved as the others I've considered.

I saw the Wood mag version of the flip-top online, but I don't have a copy of the issue. I had been wondering about the mechanism used to flip the top over. I'll have to think whether using a long rod through the two sides will be better than having two separate bolts as pivot points.

I'm attaching the bottom of the base today, as well as install my stud casters from Rockler. I'm using glue and pocket screws to attach the bottom to the sides. The original plan was just to butt the bottom against the side and drive screws from the side into the bottom. Then I thought I might be better off rabbeting the sides to accommodate the bottom, so I got to practice a little with routing a rabbet with the edging in place. I must say that right now, I'm in love with my router.

I'll worry about the top after that. Gives me more time to think it over. I'll go to the local Ace's, even though it's a bit farther than the other hardware places. They're much more friendly and available, and they'll be able to help me with the bushings.

Thanks again for the replies.

[JR]

Anna, my local hardware store has bushings in the bins with all the specialty hardware. You know, the o-rings, cotter pins, nylon nuts, etc. that are in stacked drawers. I found bronze bushings there for when I used bolts as axels on my patio cart projects.

JR

[Anna]

Hi, JR,

I was just going to post that that's where I found the bushings. They don't call them "bushings" but something else, which I can't remember right now. They're in the specialty parts, under automotive parts.

I hope I'll be able to finish up my planer base by tomorrow. Thanks for the help, everyone!

[Jaden]

Any idea of how much is their load capacity? Rockler web site does not say anything!!!! Except they are strong

No idea on load capacity, but Rockler does state in the "Details" tab of this product that they are "Excellent for use in porch gliders, swings, gliding rockers and foot rests." So going by that your looking at at least a couple hundred pounds of load capacity.

Steve

[Tom Miller]

Just a thought (personal experience) on flip-tops and maximizing shop space:

I toyed with the idea of putting my planer and oscillating belt/spindle sander on opposing sides of a flip top. Then, it occurred to me that I didn't really have room for either one to always be flipped up. I need to be able to store both of them underneath other things (workbench, assembly table) when not in use.

Currently my sander is on it's own two-level mobile cart, and when stowed on the lower level the cart can be rolled under a table.

The planer is on a 10" high rolling base, putting the infeed/outfeed at ~12" -- I just use it at that level. At this height, it just fits under one end of my workbench.

At some point, it'd be nice to have the planer on its own flip-top, so that I could use it at a more back-friendly height, but still stow it under the bench.

Regards,
Tom