Thein Separator vrs. Cyclone questions

[atgcpaul]

Before the object is exported to the printer, you also set the infill. I am only using a 10% infill so the part is actually hollow inside. You'd never know by looking at it from the outside. You can see that the printer makes triangular trusses like a bridge. It is amazingly effective and rigid. Sorry for the poor pics. The print head was moving and the cover was down.

Is it expensive to print these parts? Might I ask if you were able to create one for me how much it might be? If it would cause you issues feel free to say NO.

The ABS spool costs $48/kg from Makerbot which is where I assume we bought it. My part weighs 120g so ~$6.

I would not be comfortable using work equipment, etc (even if I bought my own spool) to sell parts to the public, though. Sorry about that.

I will gladly share my Sketchup files, etc, with you, though, if you find someone in your area to print it for you. It is easy enough to draw it in Sketchup, too. I think the larger adapter will be a little loose, but I plan to pad out the SDD with tape or something to make it a little snugger.

Paul

[poolhound]

Thanks Paul, no worries, I will keep hunting for alternate solutions.

The ABS spool costs $48/kg from Makerbot which is where I assume we bought it. My part weighs 120g so ~$6.

I would not be comfortable using work equipment, etc (even if I bought my own spool) to sell parts to the public, though. Sorry about that.

I will gladly share my Sketchup files, etc, with you, though, if you find someone in your area to print it for you. It is easy enough to draw it in Sketchup, too. I think the larger adapter will be a little loose, but I plan to pad out the SDD with tape or something to make it a little snugger.

Paul

[capncarl]

Poolhound
I save some of the clean throw away containers from the house kitchen like tin cans, Pringles canisters, oatmeal containers etc. For the inlet into my delta 50-760 from the Thein I found a heavy round cardboard canister that fit the delta inlet perfectly. I think it was a Cascade container. I was planning on replacing it with a fiberglass tube but after 1 year of heavy use I can see no signs of wear on the cardboard, I may leave it there.

Fiberglass couplings are not that hard to make. I usually use something slightly smaller than the desired ID and build it up with masking and electrical tape to get the desired ID. For a release agent I wrap the coupling with clear kitchen wrap, then fiberglass cloth/resin. I usually just split 1 side on the band say to remove from the mold and glass back together.

We use to bend a fair amount of pvc conduit with a heater, making me think that it could be heated and enlarged to the new desired size.

capncarl

[poolhound]

Having just spoken to Oneida they sent me a photo of how they suggest doing it and the light bulb went on. I had been trying to connect them on the outside but even with their suggested reducer they say it should be crimped and inserted on the inside of the 2 parts. Aaaaaah!

With that now understood I can see that the $8 reducer I got from Amazon would have worked. however I returned it - dang. I now see that maybe a straight 6"-6" sheet metal splice collar that I can get from HD for $5 should let me insert it inside the 6" port on the SDD and outside the 5" inlet on my DC. With some judicious use of foam/rubber weather stripping and duct tape I think I will have a solution.

More on News at 11

[JimD]

The DOE report is about a chemical process not involving wood dust. I don't see anything in the presentation about particle size. It is also unclear how much they knew about designing cyclones. So I don't think it proves anything with respect to our need for good dust separation in the shop. I also have no problem with someone wanting to use a Thien. I did that too, at first.

[All Thumbs]

The DOE report is about a chemical process not involving wood dust. I don't see anything in the presentation about particle size. It is also unclear how much they knew about designing cyclones. So I don't think it proves anything with respect to our need for good dust separation in the shop. I also have no problem with someone wanting to use a Thien. I did that too, at first.

The way it was explained to me by a professor was that it is all fluid dynamics (even air and sawdust is fluid dynamics) and he said the guys doing this stuff for the department of energy know a thing or two about cyclones.

I'm going to give it a try.

[capncarl]

Thein Separator update.
I have completed the installation of the Wynn Nano filter cartridge on my Delta 50-760. Just for laughs I removed the motor and fan wheel assembly to see how bad the fan was caked up with pine dust, pretty bad, but it cleaned ok. I was shocked to see how rough the edges of the fan wheel and blades were. This is rough as in from the factory, sharp edges that you would have thought would have been removed, not from junk going thru the fan and dinging it up. 30 minutes with a file and air grinder and they are as they should be.
Next I worked on the Thein Separator. My Thein separator ( aprox 24" dia x 12" tall ) has clear acrylic sides so you can see the dust and debris flying around inside. It has been removing close to 100% of the saw chips and shavings but it lets a lot of the wood flour dust go through. The fan suction pick up into the Thein is a 5" pipe picking up near he baffle. I changed the fan suction to a gallon tin can with a door cut in the side with the door cut out material swung to the side wall to create a swirl action in the higher part of the separator. I tested this mod by force feeding it massive gobs of planer chips and floor sweeping. It threw them in the garbage can with no problem but after 10 gallons there was about 1/4 cup of chips in the plastic bag under the canister. I did not see any signs that the Thein was picking up any chips or dust from the garbage can when the dust collector was idiling with no debris being picked up. Not one to leave something that is operating nicely alone I decided to take the Thein back apart and remove the diverted door off the tin can pick up. The thought behind this move was the diverted door could be diverting chips into the suction. After removing the diverted door I tested the unit again. I did not notice chips going to the plastic bag but I did notice swirling chips in the Thein when the dust collector was idiling and no debris being picked up. Not what I wanted, I have caused more Thein "reflux". I believe this is where the wood flour is coming from in the filter, being picked up from the garbage can when the collector is just idling. I'm putting the diverted door back in the Thein tomorrow.
The change to the Nano filter, cleaning up the fan blades and removing the screens in the fan housing seem to increase the amount of suction by 2x.
capncarl

[poolhound]

Did you do some form of measurement or is this a gut 2x? Also is the comparison with the old filter bag and was it clean or dirty?

As I am just about to setup my 50-760 with my SDD I am very interested. I wonder how much was attributable to cleaning the fan blades. Also what do you mean by "removing the screens?"

The change to the Nano filter, cleaning up the fan blades and removing the screens in the fan housing seem to increase the amount of suction by 2x.
capncarl

[capncarl]

Poolhound, 2x is an wild blue guess. I saw no need in testing because it is what it is and the test results would only make me want to change something else. I wish I had run it before and after on the fan clean up with the bag filter to see if I could tell any change. My experience with cleaning up industrial blowers says it would have improved this one. It is an easy job and I would recommend it on yours . The bag filter was dirty but the unit still had plenty of suction. I can't say that cleaning the bag filter made much difference. The screens are factory welded in metal grates to keep someone from sticking their hand in the fan. They break out fairly easy and clean up with an air grinder or file. The 5" plastic y on the intake also has a grates that you can clip out and clean up, as well as clean up all the plastic molding snags in the y. Kinda hard to believe they left this much restrictions on a vacuum sys.

On your sdd installation, do you turn the delta over where the fan motor is on the bottom?

[poolhound]

Unless I misunderstand what you mean I am not sure I see why I would want to do that. My plan is to have the SDD mounted directly under the 5" fan intake much like a dedicated cyclone would.

As my long term plan is to have it installed in a separate external addon to the shop I may remove the body from the stand and direct mount to the structure. Once I have the SDD installed and the junk going through to the filter way reduced I want to see how long a nice clean bag stays clean and possibly test with the filter bag removed and venting directly outside.

On your sdd installation, do you turn the delta over where the fan motor is on the bottom?

[atgcpaul]

I think this is what Poolhound and I are both trying to achieve with our DCs and the SDD. We wouldn't need to cut that grate away from in front of the impeller because there's practically no way any of large pieces will ever reach it and get stuck. That being said, I cut mine away in my HF DC because stuff kept hanging up on the crosshairs--like hand plane shavings.



I might take a break from my kitchen project this long weekend (too cold to spray paint in the shop) and work on my DC mod. I wanted to keep it on the same rolling platform but it's all going to be really tall if I use my existing 30 gallon drum.

[capncarl]

The screens are installed by the mfg to release them from liability for someone getting a couple of fingers mauled off. Dust conveying systems and equipment should be free of sharp corners on fittings just like it should not have tight bends in the piping. I don't think this is emphasized enough in the write ups I've seen. When we were building our peanut hull, skins and meal dust systems all welds and joints were checked with a cloth like ladies hosiery. If it snagged it was ground smooth and polished. I believe that checking/ repairing the equipment for rough fittings will improve its performance. ( not that any of us is measuring performance changes)

[capncarl]

Poolhound, is your delta 50-760 still on the factory cart? Is there room under the sdd to put a catch can? I'm using a 30 gal galvanized trash can under the Thein separator and there is only about 1 inch left.

[capncarl]

Jdon, my baffle slot opening is 1 1/8 to 1 1/4. I stated earlier that I noticed a lot of "reflux" being pulled from the garbage can when the machine was idiling. Today I was going to make a new baffle with a narrow opening but instead I made a sheet metal cover for the existing baffle with a louvered grill that inserts down into the opening. I force fed it 5 gallons of planer chips and none went into the plastic bag and there was no reflux when it was idiling. Then I fed it a large coffee can full of wood flour, I only notice a cloud in the plastic bag when I fed it a large amount all at once. I opened the garbage can and it had a nice late of the flour in it. The canister filter did have some in it though, but not enough to shake out, I could rub some off the pleats inside. I think this was an improvement. It is set up ready to go, I'm thru experimenting for now.
capncarl

[capncarl]

Photo of baffle louvre mod plate