Pine is fine, except when its

[chopnhack]

mine.... I have had limited success staining pine.

Has anyone ever followed this recipe for staining pine?

http://americanwoodworker.com/blogs/...ning-pine.aspx

I am wondering about the first set of instructions. Do you think the intent is that the first coat drys completely, sand it then repeat for second coat or to flood on a second coat after wiping the board down.

<<Brush on two generous coats of water-based conditioner. With each application, keep the surface wet for three to five minutes, then wipe off the excess. Let the conditioner dry thoroughly, then sand it with 400-grit paper. Go lightly on contours and edges, so you don’t cut through.>>

Or do we call this magazine bull $ hit and move on?

[LCHIEN]

Maybe, just maybe there's a reason why pine is cheap and seldom used for fine furniture.

[Dal300]

Strange recipe. I usually just mix some water based poly with water, usually about 75% water / 25% poly. Slap on a light coat, let it dry and sand it off with my choice of grit sand paper.

Yeah, I know it's a crappy picture, but you get the idea.

[JR]

The sealer should have instructions on the can as to how long to wait before a second coat.

That's definitely the way to do it. The sealer seals the fibers, which in turn means that the stain will penetrate more uniformly accross the project. Dal300's approach is pretty much the same thing, as is using shellac.

JSR

[cabinetman]

Using a conditioner of sorts can be hit or miss. The theory is that it will allow the soft/light areas take the stain the same as the hard/dark areas. Some formulations work better than others. With this one, experiment to test your own results. In many cases, just using a gel stain can give good results.

.

[chopnhack]

Loring, eastern white pine has quite a bit of history in furniture. Some may even be fine furniture as it was a common wood of colonial times. Pine is cheap because it is plentiful and at the moment since housing starts are still low compared to several years ago, white pine is more than plentiful.
I detect you do not like the wood or the attempts to stain it. However, it is more challenging in its staining and I have too much of it on my hands. I also have two projects that need to be done asap and white pine was the first thing at hand. To clarify neither project will be fine furniture, but the color needed to be changed on both items.

That looks pretty good Dal, I did something similar on the boy's train table last year using a 1:1 ratio of water and GF satin poly to seal and raise the grain. It definitely helped to keep the absorption more even. I was just wowed by the eveness of the color on the magazine panel. It looked like there was no grain color reversal! That is the biggest telltale with staining pine, IMHO... That is what I am shooting for.

JR, I tried some shellac tonight. What was really cool about it aside from it drying so quickly, was that after I had tested the stain, I was able to wipe most of the stain off with denatured alcohol. It did leave behind in some pits and crevices, but a lot came off!

Never used a gel stain before. Have you had success with it cman on pine?

[Black wallnut]

I've had good luck with Minwax redoak stain on pine after a label application of Minwax pre-stain conditioner or something close to that name.

[chopnhack]

Wow, I'll say! That came out really good Mark. Maybe the trick is using the manufacturer's proprietary product...

[cabinetman]

Never used a gel stain before. Have you had success with it cman on pine?

I don't use pine for finished woodwork. But gel works on other problem species.

.

[thetimbo]

I gave up staining wood. Now, I only use dyes. It's ten times faster, and I have more control over the final color. For a blotchy softwood like pine, the wood must be sealed first. The problem is that once sealed (with something like dilute shellac), the dye you now want to apply won't penetrate properly. For dying, a different sealer is needed. An ounce of hide glue in a quart of warm water brushed on and allowed to dry makes a good water-based sealer. Because it's water-based, dyes easily penetrate it. Just hit it with 220 grit real quick before you dye. Excellent blotch control. There is also a water-based PVA glue sealer (rather than hide) that you can buy here: https://charlesneilwoodworking.3dcar...trol_p_47.html I've never used it, but it's the same concept (a dilute water-based sealer which dye can penetrate). All that being said, if I wanted to dispense with pre-sealing the pine, I'd simply add transtint directly to my shellac in order to get my desired tone. Then apply as many coats as needed for the final color. Hope this helps.

[chopnhack]

Thanks Tim, that does help! I didn't think of it, but you bring up some good points, staining and dyeing are two different processes. I use the word stain loosely, but I guess I shouldn't anymore.

I have had luck before with transtint dyes, but I have sealed the pine products first, whether they were ply or solid wood. I used the final top coat diluted with water 1:1. It does help to control the blotch and also stiffens any of the previously raised grains making them easy to knock down with a light sanding. I usually use 400 grit at this point so I don't cut through the sealer coat.

Have you ever used reduced top coat as a seal coat?

Thanks for bringing up the inability of transtint to pass through shellac!! I didn't know that And thanks for reminding me of the ability to add transtint to shellac!! I have some new toys in my arsenal now

[cabinetman]

There is also a water-based PVA glue sealer (rather than hide) that you can buy here: https://charlesneilwoodworking.3dcar...trol_p_47.html I've never used it, but it's the same concept (a dilute water-based sealer which dye can penetrate).

Interesting...$17.00 plus shipping, for a quart of water with some glue in it.

.

[chopnhack]

Hmmm... I don't know cman, true its a bit spendy for water and glue, if that is all that it is? I watched the entire video attached to the product with Charles and the results were phenomenal! Check out the video, watch the part where he stains SYP plywood amazing!!

Got me wondering whether artists clear gesso would work in a similar fashion? Any painters out there that have given this a try?

[cabinetman]

Hmmm... I don't know cman, true its a bit spendy for water and glue, if that is all that it is?

I doubt you'll find an ingredient list in the MSDS, or any tech docs. Might be because it's easy to make. Blotchy wood appearance is only a state of its natural condition, when chemicals are applied. I've heard suggestions that it would make for good subject matter for Rorschach tests.

.

[Stytooner]

I worked at a factory that produced pine dinette sets. Everything was dipped in the stain tanks. It was all Southern Yellow Pine. The recipe for the stain was 300 gallons of Unleaded gasoline. 10 gallons of roofing tar and one quart of red oxide paint.
This produced a very nice looking honey pine color.
The plant burned down though. Twice!
Not because the stain tanks caught fire, but the spray booths did. They were spraying a varnish. The non explosion proof lights got it the first time and not sure what caused the second one. No injuries though either time. Very lucky.