Cabinet with Drawers going awry

[bfrikken]

Probably more then a rant than anything. I'm in the process of an organizing system for my walk in closet. I put a lot of time into drawing up plans for this thing. Ultimately, it is a rather simple layout. Only one basic cabinet with four drawers. The rest of the cabinet space is going to be basic shelving.

If you can picture this, when you walk in the closet door, you turn to the left, and in that corner, you'll see my cabinet with drawers. On top of that will be a second cabinet that is all shelving. The rest of the wall will be a double decker hanger rod that ends into a corner cabinet. Since this cabinet required drawers, I figured I would start with this cabinet, and figured the rest would be a cakewalk if i could conquer this. I have never done drawers before, so I figured it would also be a good learning experience.

Anyways, I messed up at first and cut the pieces for my drawers and they were all wrong. It sucks when you cut your TEMPLATE to the wrong dimension. That wasted an entire Sunday, so I started that all over again. Over the past couple weekends, I got everything cut and assembled. Things were going real well. Drawers look real good, and the carcass of the cabinet went together well. I have those accuglide glides to install. The ones that allow you to pull the drawer all the way out if needed. I installed them on the first drawer, and went to slide it in, and the stupid thing is about 1/4 of an inch from touching the other side. Well, since the glides need 1/2 inch of clearance on each side, I realised i measure the half inch off the drawer front which is already cut 1/8 inch on each side for clearance as the drawers will close flush with the front. Dang, so I cut some 1/8 inch hardboard shims. That was the only real material I have that is 1/8 inch. So I rip it all apart, and reassemble with the shims. It doesn't work. The drawer now is too tight going into the carcass.

One thought I had is to scrap the accuglide's altogether, and use the basic drawer slides I see everywhere else. I figured that would be more friendly to slop, since I already screwed thsi up. Either that, I'm going to go to shelving all around. Save my next drawer proejct for the shop stuff I have next on my plate.

It has all been a learning experience, but I just feel like I screwed up everything at every turn. I don't plan on quitting, but man, i gave it a quick thought.

[Rslaugh]

sounds like it might be easier to build a new cabinet to match the nice drawers you have

[pecker]

Any drawer glides I've used have rather precise requirements for the width of the drawer box. If you can't keep things to within about 1/32" along the entire drawer depth (and on the carcase, as well) they just don't work well...or at all.

[bfrikken]

sounds like it might be easier to build a new cabinet to match the nice drawers you have

That was my thought leaving the garage last night.

[bfrikken]

Any drawer glides I've used have rather precise requirements for the width of the drawer box. If you can't keep things to within about 1/32" along the entire drawer depth (and on the carcase, as well) they just don't work well...or at all.

even the oldschool ones that are the wheels on tracks that only come out like 3/4 of the way?

[cabinetman]

There's an old saying "Fall back and regroup". As a procedure, you measure for the overall wall, decide on the width of the cabinets, and or openings. Figure in the dividers/ends, and then you are left with a drawer opening. Then you get the slides you want. Accuride full extension are very good, BTW. Anyway, there will be a clearance requirement for each side, and for those it's probably 1/2". There's also a recommendation of adding another 1/32" for each side, so you really wind up with 1/2" + 1/32", or IOW 17/32". I suggest you take the extra 1/32" just to have room to shim if necessary. Then deduct that twice for the outside drawer dimension.

If you are too narrow with the drawer box, you could add a buildup on the inside of the cabinet to take up the difference. That is easier than making new drawers. If the drawer is too wide, and can be disassembled, cut the front and back, or depending on the joinery, you might be able to mill some to be enough. Or, worse case scenario, machine a groove in the drawer sides, if minimal, to set the slides into the drawer sides. This can be done with a TS or router. These are fix-its that can be avoided if the initial planning and paperwork is checked out thoroughly. DAMHIKT
.

[Popeye]

Try taking out the 1/8" hardboard. Remeasure the width of the cabinet, the drawers and drawer guides to figure out how much shy in width you are. Then use flat washers on either one side or both sides to make up the distance. Don't give up! Just take a break and go back at it. Good luck, we all have projects that go like this. Pat

[LCHIEN]

I'm sorry to say that that has happened to all of us at one time or another.
I tend to work fast and make mistakes. I find I have to slow down and work more carefully in WW, this is good for other projects as well as real work.

Think everything through. Measure twice. Don't take short-cuts (like neglecting to use featherboards when they should be used). Whenever possible, fit things together and make sure they line up, add up and fit. try to visualize where things go and what migth interfere. Tke frequent breaks, don't work when tired or distracted. Sometimes i just make stupid mistakes measuring off 8-3/4 where I meant 9-3/4" - this can be caught by many of the above suggestions. Surely where templates and mass production are involved, make triply sure that template is correct and dry-fit together your design using either the template or a sample made off the template. Make lots of test cuts on scraps and spare pieces to find any problems in setup and or technique.

This will help you be a better woodworker.

[bfrikken]

There's an old saying "Fall back and regroup". As a procedure, you measure for the overall wall, decide on the width of the cabinets, and or openings. Figure in the dividers/ends, and then you are left with a drawer opening. Then you get the slides you want. Accuride full extension are very good, BTW. Anyway, there will be a clearance requirement for each side, and for those it's probably 1/2". There's also a recommendation of adding another 1/32" for each side, so you really wind up with 1/2" + 1/32", or IOW 17/32". I suggest you take the extra 1/32" just to have room to shim if necessary. Then deduct that twice for the outside drawer dimension.

If you are too narrow with the drawer box, you could add a buildup on the inside of the cabinet to take up the difference. That is easier than making new drawers. If the drawer is too wide, and can be disassembled, cut the front and back, or depending on the joinery, you might be able to mill some to be enough. Or, worse case scenario, machine a groove in the drawer sides, if minimal, to set the slides into the drawer sides. This can be done with a TS or router. These are fix-its that can be avoided if the initial planning and paperwork is checked out thoroughly. DAMHIKT
.

Yeah, I think the planning and everything has been pretty good (after the first drawer mishap). Everything is cut to the dimensions I planned. I simply planned my drawer side measurement off the drawer front, and not from the cabinet wall, which I'll just call a rookie mistake. So basically, i think the plans were fine, just the execution is poor For example, when I put the drawer in with no shims and no slides, the side of the drawer fronts on each side are basically perfect, 1/8" on each side. Then it all goes to **** when I try to install the drawer slides. When I look at the sides of the drawers, it is obvious I pieced those together short of where they should be, and my measurements are close to 1/8 on each side. I think you are exactly right that the clearance is 1/2" + 1/32" and even my shims put me right at 1/2 or maybe even 15/32 which is the reason it is so tight.

[bfrikken]

I'm sorry to say that that has happened to all of us at one time or another.
I tend to work fast and make mistakes. I find I have to slow down and work more carefully in WW, this is good for other projects as well as real work.

Think everything through. Measure twice. Don't take short-cuts (like neglecting to use featherboards when they should be used). Whenever possible, fit things together and make sure they line up, add up and fit. try to visualize where things go and what migth interfere. Tke frequent breaks, don't work when tired or distracted. Sometimes i just make stupid mistakes measuring off 8-3/4 where I meant 9-3/4" - this can be caught by many of the above suggestions. Surely where templates and mass production are involved, make triply sure that template is correct and dry-fit together your design using either the template or a sample made off the template. Make lots of test cuts on scraps and spare pieces to find any problems in setup and or technique.

This will help you be a better woodworker.

This is pretty good advice that I've learned more of as I've gone along on this project especially. I've been trying to work smart and take my time. Hence my template, and the project taking more then just a few weekends. Just had to remember to put the template in use the right way Oh well, second time around it worked fine. I am fighting the don't know any better issues constantly due to lack of experience. The measureing off the front of the drawer was stupid in hindsight, but it made sense when planning and doing it. Just a matter of stupid mistakes. For what it's worth, I have lots of scrap pieces now for practice

One thing that is bothering me, I measured everything a 2nd time with the shims in place. The cabinet is square. The bottom panel is exact length to both of the top braces that go under the cabinet top. I'm back to thinking the shims are slightly larger then 1/8" which could also account for them forcing teh slides too tight. For a bit, I thought my drawer was not completely square, figuring it was bowing out or something causing everything to not alight right, but the drawer measures fine front and back.

[bfrikken]

Try taking out the 1/8" hardboard. Remeasure the width of the cabinet, the drawers and drawer guides to figure out how much shy in width you are. Then use flat washers on either one side or both sides to make up the distance. Don't give up! Just take a break and go back at it. Good luck, we all have projects that go like this. Pat

OOOH, the washers is a good idea, I'll have to look this over when i get a chance.

[pelligrini]

I still have a bunch of basswood sheets from my architectural model making days. I find them quite handy when needing some thin shims. A lot of hobby shops carried a wide range of 3x24 pieces in a variety of thicknesses. Sounds like a 3/32 of 1/16 might fix you up

[jonmulzer]

Use cardboard for shims. The flat, un-corrugated stock comes in handy for shims and you can even start out with corrugated to find out exactly what you need. It will compress as you tighten down the screws until it fits like a dream. Then you know exactly what you need if you have a set of calipers. I would not do this for anything I built for someone else, but sometimes I lower standards for things I build for myself.

[bfrikken]

Use cardboard for shims. The flat, un-corrugated stock comes in handy for shims and you can even start out with corrugated to find out exactly what you need. It will compress as you tighten down the screws until it fits like a dream. Then you know exactly what you need if you have a set of calipers. I would not do this for anything I built for someone else, but sometimes I lower standards for things I build for myself.

My standards right now, are just make the dam'ed thing work.

[jackellis]

I feel your pain.

Another thing you might consider is dispensing with drawer slides and using drawer glides instead. Basically a wood-on-wood or wood on UHMW device that requires somewhat less precision than slides. They're used often on fine furniture, like the Ethan Allen night stands LOML just bought.

You mill a dado in either the carcase or the drawer and fit a piece of wood to match it on the carcase or drawer. A little wax makes everything slide nicely.