Attaching face frames?

[Anna]

I screwed up and am currently stuck with a long face frame (~10 feet) that I can't figure out how to attach to my long cabinet.

I thought I can do pocket holes on the top of the carcase and attach at least the top of the face frame that way. But the bottom portion is a bit of a problem. Can't use clamps anymore since the carcase is installed on the wall (and there's no way I'm taking it down; it took me forever to get it up to begin with).

I thought about putting really heavy objects leaning against the frame to "clamp" it, but I have a feeling that will be disastrous one way or the other.

Now I'm thinking I should get a headless pin nailer. Is that a good idea? I also have brad nailers, but the holes they make are really ugly.

The face frame is unpainted hard maple with poly. Will a pin nailer make unsightly holes? Is there a way to hide unsightly holes in this particular instance? Like a maple-colored putty or something?

Help?

Anna

[jackellis]

Anna,

I have a headless pin nailer (Harbor Freight) that I have experimented with. It makes tiny holes but they are not exactly invisible. I assume you're going to glue the face frame on whether you pin it or not. It's been my experience that while you need some clamping pressure, you do not need a whole lot of it.

Another option is to use biscuits but I don't see how you would be able to make them work unless you can attach clamps across the depth of the cabinet.

[cabinetman]

Anna

Yep you got yourself painted in a corner. Actually an 18 ga pin nailer has a very small head. You could set your pressure to just seat the head below the surface. Use glue. There are many brands of a crayon type "fix it" repairs. The Minwax brand is called Blend-Fil. It works like a crayon. You just rub it on the hole and clean the surface with a clean rag. There are many colors available. It finishes almost invisible. No sanding. You can custom mix colors by chipping off colors from different ones and mix them together and use a small spatula. Other brands offer similar products such as Color Putty.

[LarryG]

I don't own a pin nailer. I've been semi-shopping for one, largely because I've read that they leave a virtually invisible hole.

Another option, if you have to buy something, is an edge clamp. There are several types available. The simplest is like a three-sided C-clamp. There's another inexpensive type that piggybacks onto a bar clamp. And for those with deep pockets, several companies make upscale self-adjusting models that can be operated with one hand.

At least a few of the first or second type probably ought to have a home in every shop (including mine).

[Ken Massingale]

1. I'd rather have a few small holes in the interior than brad or pin holes on the face frame. If the shelves are on pins and removable you're in luck. Mount temporary small blocks inside the cabinet to clamp to. Since it's 10 ft. long a couple on each end and on the top and bottom should work. When the face frames are dry remove the temp blocks and fill those holes.

2. Attach the face frames to the carcass with glue and a few equally spaces small screws. Countersink the screw holes and use plugs of the same stock as the frames or a contrasting color wood.

3. Another option from Lee Valley

[Tequila]

Pin nailer holes are very small, but not invisible. If the face frame is near the floor, you'll never notice them. It it's anywhere above waist height, the holes may be noticeable. Nothing like brad nail holes, but enough of an impression in the wood to mar the finish.

I'd suggest biscuits and edge clamps to put the frame on - you'll be much happier than if you had pin holes through the front edge.

[Garasaki]

I guess I don't understand why pocket holes would be an option on the top of the frame but not the bottom??

Especially if you plug the holes, I don't see how it'd be unsightly if:

Wall mounted cabinet - pockets located on the bottom edge of the cabinet bottom, you'd never be able to see, pockets located in the top edge of the cabinet bottom, your eyes would never look at.

Floor mounted cabinet - Pockets located on the bottom edge, probably not possible because of lack of clearance and access, pockets located on the top edge, again eyes not drawn to them.

Plus if you put contact paper in the cabinet it would further help to hide the holes.

[dkhoward]

I think my solution would be biscuits. To facilitate the clamping, I would screw clamping blocks to the underside of the cabinet and then when the face frame glue had set, remove the blocks, fill the holes on the underside of the cabinet sand and touch up. Should make an invisible frame attachments without too much trouble

[Anna]

I guess I don't understand why pocket holes would be an option on the top of the frame but not the bottom??

Well, this is what it currently looks like (face frame is not attached). It's my first cabinet, and I know I really screwed things up. I think I was more curious about whether the parts were going to fit at all, and I didn't really think about the sequence of actually fitting them together.

I'm now convinced an ad hoc design process is probably not a good idea.

The top is going to be two layers of MDF as subtop then maple-edged plywood for the actual top (still trying to figure THAT one out).

I like the edging clamp suggestion. I'm going to need a bunch, though. What Ken suggested also works, I think. Will have to think about that some more.

Thanks for all the suggestions, guys. Great forum, as always.

Anna

[Tequila]

Your picture helps a lot!

How about making a caul and running clamps through the two doorways to the other side of the wall? That should solve your clamping problem without having to make any holes.

[pecker]

If you could precisely drill some dowel holes, I would think you could use a heavy bodied glue on the face frame and tap it into place with a mallet. Since the dowels will fit tightly, unlike biscuits, you shouldn't need clamps to keep it from falling off.

You would need to get some dowel centers, which are only a couple bucks. Drill the holes in the carcass, insert the dowel centers. Have someone help hold the frame in place while you tap on it...this will tranfer you drilling point onto the back of the frame. Then drill. Just be sure not to drill all the way through! or you will have much bigger holes to fill than 23g or 18g.

[LarryG]

Ah. When you wrote "...the carcase is installed on the wall (and there's no way I'm taking it down)", I envisioned an upper cabinet (and will bet I wasn't alone).

Having seen a photo, I like Ken's second suggestion, version B. Attach the face frame with screws, and plug the holes with bungs that match the darker interior wood. If you really want to get fancy, make the plugs square.

[radhak]

Having newly used Miller dowels this past week, i think that's an option for you : miller dowels add just as much (if not more) strength and 'clamp' as screws, and they are 'plugs' themselves. If you get dowels of contrasting wood you'd make it even stylish.

I see myself soon getting into the same position as you are now, but by design : I plan to use regular dowels to align the face frame, glue, and miller dowels to hold the face frame on. Most probably overkill, but all in the name of gaining experience and self-satisfaction.

Miller dowels available all places - Amazon, Woodcraft, Rockler for $25 a kit. And if you have 3/4" thick stock, the mini version is good enough.

[Anna]

Okay, lemme see if I can enumerate the different options:

1. Brad or pin nailer and use crayon-type or putty to cover holes.
2. Use edging clamps.
3. Screw blocks onto inside vertical sections of carcase and use those to clamp face frames.
4. Screw into face frame, countersink and fill the hole with plugs.
5. Lee Valley invisible nailing kit.
5. Cauls to the other side of the wall.
6. Regular dowels.
7. Miller dowels.

It's amazing. The only thing I came up with on my own was the nailer and having to fill those in. I would never have thought of all the others.

Right now I'm leaning towards Number 3 because I have all the parts and pieces available immediately. It also seems to be the least likely to screw up.

I'd like to get my hand on that invisible nailing kit sometime, though. Would give me an excuse to buy the pin nailer after all.

Thanks again, guys. Sorry about the confusion regarding having the cabinet "up on the wall." I spent most of my time on the floor trying to get the thing level and plumb, so to me, it was "up on the wall." I'll get the terminology for all these things right some day.

Anna

[capncarl]

I attached face frames to a simular cabinet rebuild by using 10-24 threaded rods. About one inch of one end of the threaded rod was bent 90 degrees and inserted in a shelf bracket hole. A 2x4 was used on the outside of the frame to pull the face to the cabinet. A 1/4 inch hole was drilled in the 2x4 for each threaded rod to insert through, a washer and a nut was run tight, pulling the frame against the cabinet. Several set ups were required, but it was inexpensive and the materials can be reused for other jobs.

good luck