Constructive criticism wanted

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  • Ed62
    The Full Monte
    • Oct 2006
    • 6021
    • NW Indiana
    • BT3K

    #1

    Constructive criticism wanted

    Even though I don’t have a router table (except for the BT3K), I decided to make a router table fence. The design is my own. I am not looking for kudos, but I am looking for constructive criticism. The fence is made from Ύ” Baltic Birch (Borg style), Ό” hardboard, 3 small pieces of oak, and Ό” toilet bolts with wing nuts and washers. It is larger than most, at 46” long, 4 7/8” high, and the base is also 4 7/8” wide.

    The main fence: My plywood was not totally flat, so I face glued 2 pieces together after flipping 1 piece over to create a small gap in the middle, while the ends touched. I thought pulling the middle of the boards together would result in a flat fence because the outward forces on the 2 pieces would cancel each other. It seems to have worked.

    Sliding fence and “T” track: Ύ” plywood X 4 7/8” high X 46” long.
    On 1 side, I routed a groove ½” wide, and Ό” deep, centered 1” from the top, all the way through from end to end. I flipped the piece over, then routed an identical groove, centered 2” from the bottom. A piece of Ό” hardboard was then glued to both faces, hiding the grooves I routed. After the glue dried, I cut a 5/16” wide piece out of the hardboard, centered on the ½” grooves. This resulted in a “T” track on each side of the fence.

    A 2” wide piece was ripped off the top, leaving me with a “T” track, centered in the piece. This piece was then glued to the face of the main fence, with the tops aligned.

    I ripped about Ό” off the bottom of the remaining piece, which would become the sliding fences. This was ripped to allow easy sliding of the fences, and allow clearance for dust at the bottom. This piece was then cut into (2) 23” pieces.

    Base: The base was attached to the main fence, while using 90 degree oak supports. The main fence and the base were screwed to the support pieces with countersunk 2” screws. Glue was not used in case it became necessary to adjust because it was not a true 90 degree fit.

    Finished fence: I expect the fence to work just fine.
    The sliding fences slide easily, and allow them to be set very close to the router bits. Although you can’t see this in the pics, when the sliding fences are open, there is 1” of depth to enclose a bit before it hits the main fence. If more depth is needed, a piece will need to be cut from the main fence to allow room for the bit.

    The “T” track on the top of the fence should work very nicely to hold featherboards, bit guards, etc.

    Problem building “T” tracks: Even though I was very careful not to use too much glue close to the grooves, I still had a little squeeze out. This made it difficult for the toilet bolts to slide in the tracks. I wound up grinding the heads of the toilet bolts nearly round, with just a little stock left to grab the hardboard in the “T” track. This worked out nicely.

    If you have any constructive criticism, please let me have it. I learn that way.

    "t" track detail


    Router table fence pieces


    fences opened


    showing "T" track on extended wing


    side view
    Last edited by Ed62; 12-18-2008, 07:28 PM.
    Do you know about kickback? Ray has a good writeup here... https://www.sawdustzone.org/articles...mare-explained

    For a kickback demonstration video http://www.metacafe.com/watch/910584...demonstration/
  • Black wallnut
    cycling to health
    • Jan 2003
    • 5513
    • Ellensburg, Wa, USA.
    • BT3k 1999

    #2
    Some may disagree but i think bit guards on router fences are way over-rated, so IMHO your fence is just fine without one. In defense of my position the only cuts that I have made with a table mounted router and fence setup that have placed my hands close to the bit were dangerous anyway and there would have been no way to guard the bit anyway! When I healed enough to get back into the shop I found a safer way to make the needed cuts; this IMO should always be the case!

    I really think you need a dust port on the back of the fence even if you do not use it to gather dust and chips. For one it guards the back side of the bit should it cut through, and secondly it allows a place for chips and dust to go rather than along your fence.

    I wonder the real value of raising the moveable faces above the table to allow dust and chips to collect where it could interfere with changing fence openings. Better IMHO to have the fence faces in contact where you can just rattail broom or blow the dust away.

    Although your t-slots are really low buck your fence faces are thicker than they need to be because of it and as you mentioned glue squeeze worked against you. T-slot router bits will eliminate both problems. I have found that as long as things are not over tightened they work fine in 3/4" plywood alone when cut with the amana t-slot bit that rockler's sells that fit their t-bolts. YMMV

    The really good news IMHO is the way you attached your faces with fixed fastener locations and a slotted fence makes much more sense to me than slotted backer board. You will find that always easy to adjust!


    Screwed but not glued? I'd make it next time so that it is square and use glue.

    I like the length but think you may at some time wish for more height. I've been glad I made mine as high as I did.


    With all that said it looks to be functionable. The best teacher is what you learn by use in your shop so use it, figure out what is wrong, and fix its' shortcommings in your next one. BTW how are you attaching it to your router station? I think you made a keeper.
    Last edited by Black wallnut; 03-23-2007, 07:32 PM.
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    Comment

    • crokett
      The Full Monte
      • Jan 2003
      • 10627
      • Mebane, NC, USA.
      • Ryobi BT3000

      #3
      How will you attach it to your table? Any provisions for dust collection? Do you plan to do any edge jointing with your router? If so you need an offset fence attachment.
      David

      The chief cause of failure in this life is giving up what you want most for what you want at the moment.

      Comment

      • Ed62
        The Full Monte
        • Oct 2006
        • 6021
        • NW Indiana
        • BT3K

        #4
        Originally posted by crokett
        How will you attach it to your table?
        What table? I was thinking about either clamping it or making slots (for adjustment) in the base to use with threaded inserts and threaded stock with knobs. For edge jointing, it would be simple put a shim between the sliding fence and the main fence when I loosen the wing nut (outfeed only). Dust collection is another thing I'm considering, as well as being able to adjust the fence(s) using the toilet bolts and nuts.

        Ed
        Do you know about kickback? Ray has a good writeup here... https://www.sawdustzone.org/articles...mare-explained

        For a kickback demonstration video http://www.metacafe.com/watch/910584...demonstration/

        Comment

        • DonHo
          Veteran Member
          • Mar 2004
          • 1098
          • Shawnee, OK, USA.
          • Craftsman 21829

          #5
          Maybe I'm just not seeing it but is there a cut out in the back to allow for bit clearance? A cut out in the back fence would allow for dust collection but seems like it would be needed if you use bits an inch or more in dia.

          DonHo
          Don

          Comment

          • Ed62
            The Full Monte
            • Oct 2006
            • 6021
            • NW Indiana
            • BT3K

            #6
            No, there is not a cutout in the back. The sliding fence is 1" thick, so it will accomodate bits to be buried to that depth. I think I will make a cutout to allow for dust extraction, and that would give me more depth for bits too. Thanks for mentioning it.

            Ed
            Do you know about kickback? Ray has a good writeup here... https://www.sawdustzone.org/articles...mare-explained

            For a kickback demonstration video http://www.metacafe.com/watch/910584...demonstration/

            Comment

            • jackellis
              Veteran Member
              • Nov 2003
              • 2638
              • Tahoe City, CA, USA.
              • BT3100

              #7
              I use a simple home made router fence with a dust port behind the bit cutout. I attach it to my rip fence with a couple of spring clamps and that seems to work just fine. It does just about everything I need it to. The only reason I'd have to change it is for large, raised panel bits, but I don't expect to use them any time soon.

              This weekend's project is a sled so I can safely cut tenons with a straight bit.

              I agree with the advice to add a dust port. Really cuts down on the mess.

              Comment

              • Ed62
                The Full Monte
                • Oct 2006
                • 6021
                • NW Indiana
                • BT3K

                #8
                Sorry Mark. I didn't see your post. I saw Crokett had replied on the forums list, and just clicked on the link. I appreciate your thoughts on this. A dust collection hole will be placed in the fence, and you're right about using it to see where it falls short. Thanks for the post.

                Ed
                Do you know about kickback? Ray has a good writeup here... https://www.sawdustzone.org/articles...mare-explained

                For a kickback demonstration video http://www.metacafe.com/watch/910584...demonstration/

                Comment

                • Ed62
                  The Full Monte
                  • Oct 2006
                  • 6021
                  • NW Indiana
                  • BT3K

                  #9
                  Originally posted by jackellis
                  I use a simple home made router fence with a dust port behind the bit cutout. I attach it to my rip fence with a couple of spring clamps
                  Would you happen to have a pic handy? If not, don't bother taking one. I think I can picture what you have. Thanks for the reply.

                  Ed
                  Do you know about kickback? Ray has a good writeup here... https://www.sawdustzone.org/articles...mare-explained

                  For a kickback demonstration video http://www.metacafe.com/watch/910584...demonstration/

                  Comment

                  • leehljp
                    The Full Monte
                    • Dec 2002
                    • 8790
                    • Tunica, MS
                    • BT3000/3100

                    #10
                    I just want to add this in - From personal experience I learned that the dust collection port on the fence is much better than having one below the table. Rod uses a collection above and below.

                    I do not use my fence much, but there are times that it is invaluable. This is especially so if you do not have pilot bearings on the bits.

                    A TIP: It is often recommended to take three or four passes when taking large cuts. Set the fence in relation to the bit as you want it; then set the fence up with two or three 1/4 in. plywoods and maybe a 1/8 in layer of ply clamped to the fence itself.

                    I make a pass, take a layer of 1/4 ply off, make another pass, take another off, and the last, the 1/8. Taking 1/8 ply off last makes for a smoother cut for the final pass.

                    Doint it this way, you do not have to keep moving the fence and more important, you are not tempted to do it all in one step because of the difficulty in setting the fence perfectly in the first place.
                    Hank Lee

                    Experience is what you get when you don't get what you wanted!

                    Comment

                    • jackellis
                      Veteran Member
                      • Nov 2003
                      • 2638
                      • Tahoe City, CA, USA.
                      • BT3100

                      #11
                      I'm heading off for the day but I just took a few photos of the fence that I will upload this evening.

                      I should note that at one point, I tried to build an extension table out of MDF covered with engineered flooring with a T-track slot. It was useless. This is easier to work with, easier to store in my shop with limited space, and it does a better job of collecting dust. The only time I'd like a below-the-table dust collection setup is when cutting dados. For edge work, my setup is perfect.

                      Comment

                      • Ed62
                        The Full Monte
                        • Oct 2006
                        • 6021
                        • NW Indiana
                        • BT3K

                        #12
                        Originally posted by jackellis
                        I'm heading off for the day but I just took a few photos of the fence that I will upload this evening.
                        I appreciate the effort you guys take in helping out other people.

                        Hank, thank you for your reply. And thanks to everyone who posted. This is certainly a great site, and a great ww family.

                        Ed
                        Do you know about kickback? Ray has a good writeup here... https://www.sawdustzone.org/articles...mare-explained

                        For a kickback demonstration video http://www.metacafe.com/watch/910584...demonstration/

                        Comment

                        • SARGE..g-47

                          #13
                          Morning Ed...

                          I will chime in with Mark and the others about the dire need for dust collection. But you got everything in place to do it without major mods to attain it. I like a double walled fence ( I used to shim 1/16" on the outbound side to use as an edge jointer years ago).

                          Adjustable fences allow them to open or close for zero clearance depending on the bit size. If you build a table, all you have to do is slot the back plate on your existing fence. Cut some slots on the back-side of the table fore and aft that mate to the fence base slots and use quick release T nuts and bolts for quick fence adjustment forward and rear.

                          I would triple coat the birch fence. Even laminated is going to pick up some moisture and move. I did it years ago when I built my router fence and it has been stable since. Some would say I may go to over-kill to insure minimum problems in the future. Some will probably have to build a new fence when the old one's warp cause they didn't see the need. To each our own!

                          Regards...
                          Attached Files

                          Comment

                          • Ed62
                            The Full Monte
                            • Oct 2006
                            • 6021
                            • NW Indiana
                            • BT3K

                            #14
                            Hello Sarge,

                            Thanks for the post. Your recommendation to put a coating on the fence can't take much time or effort, and very well could be a worthwhile investment. I think I'll do that. With all the input I've gotten, there are a few changes to be made. In the end, I think I'll be happier after making the changes. I didn't know there was such a thing as quick release T nuts and bolts.

                            Ed
                            Do you know about kickback? Ray has a good writeup here... https://www.sawdustzone.org/articles...mare-explained

                            For a kickback demonstration video http://www.metacafe.com/watch/910584...demonstration/

                            Comment

                            • SARGE..g-47

                              #15
                              Afternoon Ed...

                              Breaktime from wiring the new 220 v sub-panel... T bolts are what you see in my pciture. Basically a bolt 14'-5/16"-3/8"-etc. that is attached to the T shaped knob. You can get the knobs in many shapes and sizes and also with open threaded ends in various sizes so you can chose a regular hex head bolt of the lenght you want.

                              Very handy for jigs and fixtures. Very handy and can be purchased at Highland Woodworking.. Rockler.. etc. etc. I even saw a limited selection this morning picking up electrical supplies at Lowe's. They hide them in the nuts and bolts section. They have these organized trays of specialty nuts, bolts, end caps, and the list is un-limited. Most people never notice those specialtu trays of all kinds of goodies lined up under-neath hanging bags of screws, etc. There's a gold-mine there if you have a Wood Shop and prefer to build your own instead of accepting someone else's idea of what you should have.

                              Reed Supply Comapany has them also. They have every nut.. bolt.. handle.. and every thing you ever saw on a machine at your disposal. Give them a call at 800-253-0421 and ask for their large catalog. www.ReidSupply.com will give you a glimpse also.

                              Any questions.. shout! Will be in and out of shop today as wiring and assembling a country kitchen table that I pre-finished. A darn knat lit in the final coat of fiish while drying last nite. My wife may have the only white oak kitchen table with a KNAT en-tombed as the center-piece.. cause if he doesn't come out with a very light wet coat of 1600 grit, he's found a permanent home, by golly! ha.. ha... ha..ha..ha..

                              Regards...

                              Comment

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