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[Stytooner]

BW, I can see your point. However, this is Sam's yard. I don't intend to speak for him by no means. That's your job.
I think if someone has something BT related, it should very well be able to be posted with no post count and then approved by mods.
I do not have any problem at all with the poster not revealing anything personal.
In today's identity theft, you have to be comfortable with the info you give out.
These guys that have BT equipment may not be that well versed in internet security.
I say let any details that need haggled be done on a personal PM or email basis.
I feel that asking for more than was initially requested by Sam to join the site is more than I feel willing to support.
Take into account that these items may soon be difficult to find, I think they are already providing a service to the forum and interested members.
Let's leave it Caveat Emptor. Otherwise, there is no way as a mod to know what is in the minds of the new guy.
I am all for zapping blantant spam. I think you may also be feeling burnt by the recent spamming that has been going on. I simply don't see BT related items for sale at BT3Central a problem.

[sweensdv]

All this talk about BT part this and BT part that makes it sound like that's all that anyone can offer for sale or trade around here. If that's the case then say so in the forum description and have the mods delete any thread that offer for sale any item that isn't BT related from those forums. Seems to me that a new member with a non-SPAM woodworking item for sale should be allowed to post those as well as a BT related part.

Those who stated that this is a BT based website are correct but there are many members here who contribute to these forums who don't happen to own a BT. Will this be the next battle cry,......... Own A BT Or Find Another Forum!

[LCHIEN]

i specifically discussed both BT-related and WW-related items wanted or for sale.

[Bill in Buena Park]

I'd like to see low-count members allowed to post in classifieds - but I also think the 5-post minimum should apply, like it does for the other spam-related reasons.

However, say I'm a BT3 user, not a member, and want to offer my saw to the forum - perhaps there could be a "Guest Classifieds" thread, with a set ad-expiration period (3 days?) that could be accessible through Forums, but not displayed in the default "Recent Threads" view - but somehow still moderated for content (i.e., woodworking items only.) JAT.

[ragswl4]

I answered "false" and that means I see no reason to limit any ads. As with any site on the web, "Buyer beware". There have been a number of folks selling individual items and the entire inventory of their shop on this site so I see no need to regulate the For Sale section if and until someone identifies a scammer then that scammer should be banned. Faithfully exercising my 1st Ammendment Rights on the best site on the WEB!

[cgallery]

I can't help to keep thinking that I would not go to a strangers yard and conduct a yard sale just because that person has a better location. I may however after getting to know someone with a better location ask if I could have a yard sale. Each of us is no more than a guest of our host of this site.

I see your point. They benefit by offering their BT3 wares here. But we also benefit, don't we?

[Tom Miller]

First off, I'd like to add my big thanks to Mark for dealing with this "stuff". There are plenty of scammers out there, and it's obvious Mark is keeping his ears pricked watching for them on our behalf.

So, are the mods currently checking all posts by new members? If so, I'd be inclined to allow new members ads for BT3x-related stuff. I think that serves our interests, and this is the right place for such ads. Naturally, we each need to be wary, and I think we know to be careful and look for low post counts, among other things.

Concerning ads for other stuff, not until they have whatever post count it takes to post without mod approval. And, I don't want to motivate scammers to post bogus posts just to get the privilege of posting bogus ads.

So, I voted for "let them post", but with the above caveats.

Let me know if I got that moderator intervention thing wrong.

Regards,
Tom

[Black wallnut]

Tom, you're right about moderation. Each new mwmber must have the first 5 posts approved. So far I've yet to delete any for this forum, although I have deleted a few, darn few.

Lee has pretty much nailed what Sam has said in the past concerning this. I see my duty to every now and then have discussions like this to stimulate thought if for no other reason. I think all of the thoughtful answers show us for what we are. A broad based community with welcome mat rolled out! That my friends is worth lots in this day and age!

[leehljp]

Folks,

Here is where and why I WAS leery of first time posters coming for the purpose of selling:

• The porn SPAM that we experienced started without warning.

• Before that, some of you remember a few people came on and asked a decent question or two in the 1st and 2nd post, and then began the flaming. They were banned.

• The above would sign up again under a different name and start the process again. Banning an ISP in a high populated area would have resulted in cutting a few members off.

• For me, living in "Asia" I experience occasionally (LOML a little more so) the rejected email to people in the States, simply because our ISP address is Asia.

• Living in "Asia, I see all kinds of spam from neighboring countries and Euro-Asia that I am sure many of you do. Some of it is sneaky and most is spoofed. I know you see it in the US but evidently the US ISPs seems to do more for protection and rejection of certain sites than here.

With all of these givens, Moderators do have "some" responsibility of preventing this - and that was the point for which I questioned. Most everyone here are adults and can handle their own personal protection as such. But the degree to which moderators are involved is also what I was seeking for input. This is a gray area.

Last week, I approved what seemed like 10 posts in 3 or 4 days for people selling or dealing with the selling. These sudden requests for the same purpose was exactly like what started with the porn spam AND the Flaming spam as mentioned above. These same requests also refused to give personal information concerning themselves, exactly like the porn spam and flaming people who signed up. When this happens once or twice in a week, I don't worry, only watch closely. But when it happens in bunches, then it is time to be leery, IMO.

[Ed62]

I haven't replied to this thread before because I really didn't know where I stood.

After reading the opinions of others, I think most are right by wanting to allow the new user to post in the ad section. If, and when, a problem exists with spam, porn, or just jerks, it might be time to reconsider. But in the end, it's really up to the boss.

Ed

[SHADOWFOX]

I have not participated on this poll because I have submitted a question to Sam and Mark that is somewhat (I think) slightly related to this topic. So it might be a little inappropriate for me to cast in my vote on the poll.

Kind regards!

[RyobiGirl]

On a (really) serious side,

1. How I came here in the first place was looking for info on DIY stuff for my BT3100.
2. Just because I joined does't make me a trustworthy person.
3. If items are sold thru a paypal account, this would be a good way of verifying a person's worthiness. eBay/Paypal didn't get where it is letting people come and go without having a scale to measure people by.
4. It's true that these parts will get scarcer and scarcer.
5. I think if people will be "put off" by some sort of accountability as a new member, there may be a reason.
6. I don't think that a person will post a bunch of times just to sell some items when there are a number of other ways to do it. (And I am one who has not posted a lot due to health issues, but do it when I can.)
7. It is true that most of us can judge for ourselves the reliability of such things, but...I'm sure we all have examples to the contrary.
8. If people are selling/parting out their BT3*'s, why would they be a longtime contriuting member anyway?

Yes, it's great to have new members, but if they're not going to participate, is it worth it just to have a number added to the count, or would it be better to protect our members and the integrity of this site, by having some level of accountability. Maybe it should be that they either a have a number of required posts/length of membership; or b.) a paypal account as a verified member or even c.) maybe have a sponsor/member recommend them, (which would open up a whole 'nother round of ?'s) These could all be either/or. Not all of our members are going to be pleased by one single answer and it seems to me that one of these types of things will address most issues. This raises alot of questions, and if some type of control is not issued, the questions may never end by the majority.

As I have wandered thru this site, I truly enjoy what truly unique, amazing, and delightful members we have. I am coming to enjoy each members' personality, and the way, (usually) everyone is respectful and kind to one another. I wouldn't like to see that threatened in any way. Maybe I'm being too serious, here, but I can see a wrong road, and the possible loss of members over an issue such as this. If I'm feeling this way as a newbie, then how are the longer time members feeling? I compare it to the introduction of an unquarantined fish- adding it to my saltwater aquarium, only to wake up one morning and see them all dead or suffering from what one fish brought to them,and nobody's fault but my own-because I didn't take the proper precautions.

I certainly don't have all, or even an exact answer, just wanted to mention a few points for consideration.

[Schleeper]

This has always been a very friendly and open site and I would hate to see that change. If someone is joining just to post a sale, that's unfortunate but unless it becomes an undue burden on the moderators I don't see the harm. We're all big boys and girls here and can pretty quickly figure out good and bad deals for ourselves.

Au contraire! This site is enjoyed by both young and old alike. Think of how we would feel if some 12 year old future Nahm were to get scammed by someone on this site while attempting to buy his/her first table saw.

It's our responsibility to protect and nurture the next generation of woodworkers. I originally voted false, but i'd like to change it to true.

[jackellis]

After watching the thread and thinking about this, I just voted "false". Of course I realize this puts a burden on the moderators to be a bit more vigilant, but the way I see it, allowing newcomers to post want ads is the better of two difficult choices.

Most of us can smell a bad deal or a scam a mile away. Those who cannot because they are young (aka wet behind the ears) are also unlikely to buy an item without some parental supervision.

The posts we really need to be concerned with are the ones submitted con artists who are really credible. Unfortunately, those are also the hardest ones to suss out.

Though admittedly very farfetched, there's also a potential liability issue to consider. If the mods establish a policy to screen for certain kinds of posts but either happen to miss one or don't get rid of it until after the damage has been done, a party in California that's been harmed as a result may decide to sue on the basis that mods had an obligation to delete those posts. I think the underlying legal theory is outrageous, but that's the way we do things in this state.

Don't set a policy.

[master53yoda]

I feel that the length of time since becoming a member would be better then post count. If they have been a member for 6 months at least they have been involved somewhat in the group even if they haven't posted. I'm not sure posting is necessarily the sign of interest as I had read this site a considerable time before I became involved posting partially because of time issues.

All the sale as well as other topics that are not connected to woodworking do take up space in the home page and detract from the sites relevance for me.

If the site ever got to the point that woodworking was not predominant, I would probably find other sites to spend my time on.