Honda Dealership Botched My Radiator Replacement....Lost All Coolant

[crybdr]

I'm looking for advice on how to deal with a botched radiator replacement that resulted in an overheated engine this morning.

Here are the facts:

Yesterday, I had the local Honda dealership replace the radiator in my 2005 Pilot - it had apparently developed a pinhole leak, but was functioning fine. I opted to replace it rather than have it blow up at some inconvenient time. I picked up the car after the replacement, drove home, and parked it for the night. All was well.

This morning, I left the house for a 4 hour trip to Madison, WI for business. About 10 miles into the trip, I noticed there was no heat coming from the cabin vents. I watched the engine temp needle slowly start to climb higher than I've ever seen it go before. So....I know there's a problem - no warning lights yet. I find the next exit and pull off, watching the needle climb higher. By the time I can safely stop the needle pins itself on 'H'. I immediately shut the engine off and open the hood. The coolant reservoir is dry. I call the Honda dealership and am advised to get a free tow back to their site. "It might be an air pocket, but let's tow it to be safe." my service rep says.

3 hours later, I'm told the problem is fixed. I find out that the technician 'forgot' to install the lower radiator hose clamp. The word 'forgot' is even included in the technician's printed service report (I was surprised to see that).

So...I head out again , and make my 4 hour drive to Madison with no noticeable problems.

Question: How should I handle this error with the dealership?

I'm concerned about possible damage that may have occurred at freeway speed with little to no coolant. I'm also concerned about the level of quality of other work that I've had done recently (brake fluid replacement, tie-rod end replacement, power steering high pressure line).

What would be a reasonable line to take with the service department in this situation?

Thanks for any tips you can provide.

Best to you and yours,

crybdr

[tfischer]

It sounds like you caught it before anything serious happened. Still, it would be worth discussing your concerns with the service manager.

Unless you've seen other questionable service there, I wouldn't use this one incident to worry about other repairs you have had done. Everyone makes the occasional mistake. They owned up to it and fixed it and didn't try to bury the cause of the problem. To me that's a good sign.

Good luck.
-Tim

[crybdr]

I agree that mistakes can happen. I'm a very reasonable guy too.

But, my service rep told me "the clamp must have fallen off or come loose...but it's all fixed now".

It was only after he handed me the technicians paperwork (which the service rep obviously did not proof read) that I discovered that the tech himself stated that he forgot to put the clamp in place. Same tech from yesterday.

Despite the good outcome, it still feels just a tiny bit slimy/sloppy/slippery.

I'll circle back with the service manager. Thanks for the advice.

[tfischer]

But, my service rep told me "the clamp must have fallen off or come loose...but it's all fixed now".

It was only after he handed me the technicians paperwork (which the service rep obviously did not proof read) that I discovered that the tech himself stated that he forgot to put the clamp in place. Same tech from yesterday.

Despite the good outcome, it still feels just a tiny bit slimy/sloppy/slippery.

I'll circle back with the service manager. Thanks for the advice.

Ah, I missed that point. I agree, that's a little slimy. Of course a properly installed clamp won't 'fall off or come loose' either lol.

-Tim

[Pappy]

"It might be an air pocket, but let's tow it to be safe." my service rep says.

But, my service rep told me "the clamp must have fallen off or come loose...but it's all fixed now".

Liquid being pumped though the engine's cooling system doesn't form 'pockets and radiator hose clamps don't fall off.

Either this service rep is a complete idiot or he thinks the customers are and will believe anything line he feeds them. Either way he needs to be dealt with.

Start with the service manager and if you aren't satisfied with his response take it to the general manager or owner.

[capncarl]

Honda engines DO form air pockets and have to be bled! (burped) On my older Hondas there was a small fitting located on the top of the water pump or thermostat simular to an oversize schrader valve that would let out air when loosened. Hondas were particular prone to getting air in the cooling system when hoses, radiator or the water pump was replaced. Google "air in Honda cooling systems. EricTheCarGuy states that entraped air causes 90% of all car overheating problems, not just Honda.

[JoeyGee]

Maybe I'm too easy going, but it sounds to me like the tech owned up to it and the rep didn't read the paperwork, or just assumed something came loose. If it were me, I wouldn't make a big deal out of it. Sounds like you have used them in the past and your vehicle has not had any other issues.

[JimD]

I think the best thing you could do is to look around for an independant repair shop. Dealer rates are typically the highest and the service you are getting is inconsistent with paying top dollar. You should ask friends and associates where they take their cars and give somebody else a chance. The dealer is not just charging you a higher labor rate than an independant they are also charging you more for parts.

Their recovery needs to be considered - they did the right thing in towing your car and fixing it. But you shouldn't have needed that. If you complain you might get some discounts off the next service or something. If you like that better than just finding a better place to take it then you should go that route.

[atgcpaul]

Although you can't change the past, you do want some written guarantee that their mistake doesn't come back at you in the future. When you hire a licensed contractor to do work on your house, you typically get a few months to a year warranty on their work. It doesn't seem like your car is still under factory warranty but there should be some kind of warranty (or maybe you can demand one--you have written proof their tech was negligent) that your cooling system should be OK for X number of months or years or you get to bring it back at no cost to you.

Also, find an independent mechanic if not just for the price. I take all warranty stuff to the dealer but everything else goes to another mechanic I use.

[LCHIEN]

all these mechanics are paid a fixed amount for each job that comes from a reference book that states it takes 1.25 hours labor to replace a 2005 honda radiator for example. THis is called the standard rate.

So for each mechanic it becomes a race to see if he can finish the job in less time and thus make more money in a day. So its no wonder they make mistakes and forget things and don't check their work and take shortcuts that may or may not affect the long term reliability of the repair.

I having radiators replaced I've had then put the preformed hose in backwards so it went willy nilly all over the place jammed up against the motor and put the thermostat in off center so all the coolant blew past the thermostat whether it was hot or cold. I've learned to look at each repair an make sure that all the parts are back on correctly, at least.

As for the service advisor, It seems to me that they take very little interest or knowledge of the particular issues involved in your repair - they just know how to look up the standard rate and tell you how much it costs.

Probably having to pay for the tow and reworking the job should have got the mechanic a reprimand which is what keeps them in line to do at least a semi quality repair. If they don't reprimand him then that means they condone taking shortcuts and not doing a quality job to increase the turnover rate, a bad sign.

I wouldn't judge the whole repair shop based on the experience with one guy, but if it becomes a pattern they you need to change shops.

[trungdok]

I agree that mistakes can happen. I'm a very reasonable guy too.

But, my service rep told me "the clamp must have fallen off or come loose...but it's all fixed now".

It was only after he handed me the technicians paperwork (which the service rep obviously did not proof read) that I discovered that the tech himself stated that he forgot to put the clamp in place. Same tech from yesterday.

Despite the good outcome, it still feels just a tiny bit slimy/sloppy/slippery.

I'll circle back with the service manager. Thanks for the advice.

Personally, if I'm the tech who worked on it seeing the missing clamp I would think that I forgot to put it on too, despite it might of have fallen off due to whatever reason. It's rare that the tech would acknowledge the mistake though. It's the sale guy's job to minimize issue and assure you so I wouldn't read too much into it.

With the car, since you quickly shut it off before smoke and fire occurred there shouldn't be any real issue.

[rfisher7381]

I think I would be concerned. If the coolant leaked out through the lower hose then the coolant temperature sensor was not immersed in coolant and the readout on the instrument panel wasn't accurate. The engine may have gotten a lot hotter than the gauge indicated.

[Zip1]

Bare minimum, I would ask for a complete oil and filter change ASAP.
No matter how new that oil was, it probably got pretty hot.

[capncarl]

I know that all dealerships vary and mechanics come and go, but speaking for the local Honda dealership in my town, they have the best service. That is worth the few extra dollars that they charge. I do most of my own work but the wifes new Honda goes back to the dealer, it is easier on my ear. Independent shops seem to be overwhelmed by technolgy and do not have a chance to catch up. The owner of the business may have all the knowledge and his help may lag way behind.

[woodturner]

If the coolant leaked out through the lower hose then the coolant temperature sensor was not immersed in coolant and the readout on the instrument panel wasn't accurate.

On many cars, the temperature sensor is in the block rather than the coolant stream for just that reason.

The temperature range between "cold" and "overheated" in a car temperature gauge is usually in the range of 10 F. "Overheated" on the gauge is not necessarily actually overheated at the engine.

As a practical matter, the car is fine. If there was a problem caused by the overheating, it would be pretty obvious by now. For example, he would know if he had blown a head gasket. An empty coolant reservoir deson't mean there is no coolant in the system.

Probably not much he practically can do, and really no reason to do anything since no damage was caused.