What to do with kitchen Cabinets

[Cubsfan]

At some point in the near future, I'm going to have to do something with my kitchen. The flooring needs to be replaced, the cabinets need something to happen, and I need a new counter top.

The main thing I need to figure out is what to do with my kitchen cabinets. They are the normal 1988 contractor-grade (1/2" particle board)

My choices are:
1) Paint them (this is probably out. I'd normally go white, but I have several white appliances and that wouldn't work out well)
2) Reface them
3) Buy new cabinets (I'd like to avoid this, since I don't really want to spend that much money)
4) Build all new cabinets (I'd really like to avoid this as well. I could probably handle this project, but I foresee it taking a very long time).

My main questions are around #2. Most of the kits/instructions I see concentrate on replacing the doors and drawer fronts, and using veneer to cover the carcass parts. I'd be comfortable building the doors and drawers myself, but it's the veneer that has me concerned. Seems like it would be prone to scratching through. Does anyone have any thoughts on this? Also, is it possible to perhaps use 1/8" thick pieces of veneer instead of the paper thin ones? That would add some durability (while of course possibly causing some other problems).

Or, maybe there's an option that I'm not seeing? I'd love to be able to take off the face frames as well and remake those, but I'm guessing that there is a 99.9% chance that the cabinets would fall apart if I tried to remove that.

Thanks!

[woodturner]

My main questions are around #2. Most of the kits/instructions I see concentrate on replacing the doors and drawer fronts, and using veneer to cover the carcass parts. I'd be comfortable building the doors and drawers myself, but it's the veneer that has me concerned. Seems like it would be prone to scratching through. Does anyone have any thoughts on this? Also, is it possible to perhaps use 1/8" thick pieces of veneer instead of the paper thin ones? That would add some durability (while of course possibly causing some other problems).

You could use thicker veneer, but once properly adhered, the standard veneer is no more likely to scratch than solid wood.

The Taunton Press Refacing Cabinets book would likely answer most of your questions and provide some guidance. Many libraries have the book.

[cabinetman]

A few questions and thoughts.

Are the cabinets installed?

They look like a dark stained Oak...what would you want to go to?

What style do you prefer? Are overlay doors with euro hinges within your considerations?

How are the drawer boxes made and what type of hardware (if any)?

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[Cubsfan]

Are the cabinets installed?
- Yep. Original with the house (1988)

They look like a dark stained Oak...what would you want to go to?
- I'm not totally sure yet. Throwing around a couple of ideas. Maybe a lighter Maple or a cherry.

What style do you prefer? Are overlay doors with euro hinges within your considerations?
I've generally been thinking of the standard overlay. But I may consider full overlay doors.

How are the drawer boxes made and what type of hardware (if any)?
- Poorly They are about what you'd expect. 1/2" particle board with slides underneath. The drawer front is a separate piece screwed on. In other words, if you took the drawer front off, you'd still have a drawer with 4 sides.

[vaking]

I am not an expert in this but I went through a similar exercise about a year ago - so here is my opinion.
Kitchen cabinet has 3 main parts - carcass, face frame and doors/drawer fronts. If you are refacing - you are keeping the carcass and replacing face frames and fronts. Carcass is pretty straightforward to make, requires very little finishing work. It means making carcasses will probably be shorter than replacing face frames and fronts even though carcasses take the most space. 1/2" thick particle board is probably one of the worst material choices for carcass, better cabinets are made of plywood or at least thicker particle board. So in your case I would not leave in place particle board carcasses - they are not worth saving.
European style frameless cabinets provide the most efficient use of space. They do, however, require better accuracy and precision to make than standard cabinets - face frames help cover mistakes and inaccuracies. Also frameless carcasses require edging on the front.
Cabinets don't have to cost you an arm and a leg. In fact I doubt that making cabinets is cheaper than buying standard type cabinets. I replaced all cabinets in my kitchen about a year ago. My kitchen is about 200 square fit but oddly shaped, so I put in over 20 new cabinets. There was certain amount of non-standard solutions, for instance I have a counter in one place that is 13" deep and 60" wide, so I bought 3 upper cabinets and turned them into 12" deep base cabinets and made my own toe-kick. I found at Lowes clearance on a style of Ready-to-assemble cabinents, made a design and bought everything I needed (plus a couple extra cabinets for spare parts). Total price tag came to about $2K for all the cabinets. Cabinets have 1/2" plywood carcasses, oak face frames and raised panel doors - cove profile. Drawers are solid wood with dovetail joints. Cabinets are somewhat lighter in color than your current cabinets. Manufacturer says they used "wheat stain" - whatever that means. In order to add some trim I took a sample to Sherwin-Williams and made them match color - came out not ideal but close enough. Ready-to-assemble means that cabinets came in boxes and needed to be assembled with mechanical fasteners. Fasteners are not IKEA style - they are steel brackets attached to plywood panels in inconspicous places and interlocking with each other. I also figured out that making my own cabinets will take a lot of time and space to store those cabinets, that is why I bought cabinets at Lowes.

[Stytooner]

I would absolutely take the opportunity to get rid of that particle board no matter what else you do. It is fine in homes that never have a leak and is in a low humidity zone. After a hurricane and you loose power down here, it takes very little time for that stuff to start deteriorating. Even MDF is a better choice than particle board especially for long tern investments like cabinets, though I would not use it either. If you do pull the face frames, it is doubtful that they will come off that PB without damaging it as well.


Several years ago I had intended to build all new cabinets for our house. I lost my woodworking shop when I started making guards. We are moving things slowly into the new shop and I will recover my woodworking shop pretty soon, but we are now piece mealing cabinets in the kitchen.

We can buy unfinished oak cabinets very similar to what I had intended to make locally at a very good price. They are in the Shaker style, so nice and plain. They are looking pretty good so far, but only about 1/4 done, so lots more to do. We went with plain cabinets, because we chose some very nice Granite tops. That is where the money went on this project, but LOML is very happy with the looks, design and progress so far. That right there is priceless.

[JimD]

I agree with Lee, I would not put more time and/or money into particle board cabinets. Painting oak will make it look like painted oak. The big open pores will be readily visible unless a lot of work is done. So there is cosmetic as well as structural deficits in the re-use approach for the cabinets you show. New doors and veneer will dress them up but they will still be poorly made cabinets. New doors may be as expensive as new cabinets.

Can you break the kitchen down into manageable pieces and how patient are the others in your household? I replaced a whole kitchen of similar cabinets but I was able to do it a cabinet or two at a time and I had a very patient wife. If either of you would grow tired of this approach, you can probably buy some as has been pointed out that are at least significantly better.

Jim

[gerti]

A few years ago we needed a new kitchen. I would have loved to build one from scratch, but had neither the time nor the shop space to do a decent job. Never mind that it isn't easy to source decent material.

So (hate to admit it) I used IKEA kitchen cabinets. Unlike much of their other stuff, the kitchen cabinets are very well though out and constructed. The hardware (soft-closing drawers and doors) is Blum! All the lowers (except the sink and an angled cabinet) have full extension drawers, which my wife and I just love. And they have a great hanging system for the uppers, they all hang of a rail. So just get the rail in level, and the rest is easy.

There was still plenty of WW involved (and opportunity to buy some tools!). The cabinet for the hood needed some mods for the piping, some cabinets that went from the wall into the room needed to be shortened so a stock countertop would fit, and one wall is angled and the cabinets needed to be cut and modified to fit. And then there is all the trim and facings.

They have some useable software to design the kitchen and do a 3D visualization. They call your model up in the store and create the order from it.

It worked out great, was pretty a enjoyable and satisfying project, and most of all the wife is happy. Would do it again anytime. Oh, and I probably could not even have payed for materials for a scratch-built kitchen from what this kitchen did cost.

[twistsol]

If you're going to go for replacement, I have to second the durability of the Ikea cabinets. I bought 33 feet of the cheapest uppers they had for my garage. I assumed I'd have to replace them in a few years when I had more time and money, but I've been surprised at how well they've endured. Five years later, they look as good as new.

Surviving wild changes in temperature and humidity? My garage is semi-heated in winter so temperature varies from 40-70 degrees depending on if I'm working in it and the humidity goes from around 20% to 80% once the ice and snow start melting off the cars. I run a dehumidifier and it dries out the air and the puddles on the floor dry up in a couple of days.

One of the doors smacked into the sharp edge of the garage door track hanger for four years before I finally got around to cutting off the angle iron, and another door smacks into the ceiling mounter heater still. Neither of the doors shows any damage from this abuse. These are the melamine laminated doors so YMMV with the nicer looking wood doors they sell.

They also have a pretty nifty mounting rail that makes installation a snap.

Disclaimer: I have no affiliation with Ikea, but I am of Swedish descent and own a Volvo

[mineengineer]

Check out Ikea if you dont have a lot of time

I am just finishing up my kitchen and I went with IKEA stuff because it was a great value compared to the stuff I saw at several 'cabinet stores'. The boxes were actually thicker and constructed the same as some of the cabinet shops I checked out but IKEA was about 60% cheaper. I would have loved to have built my own cabinets but I dont have the time with work...kids...I also used the butcher block countertops they sell and like them alot especially for the price. When I was pricing materials for building my own I couldnt built them cheaper than what I could buy them for at IKEA. As for the "made in China" reputation aspect of these cabinets i was supprised to see that most of the IKEA boxes were made in the USA and the doors/cover panels were made in Italy. The rail was made in Lithuania. The "semi-custom knock down" stuff i saw at the "cabinet shops" in my area were all made in China. But if you can find a local guy/small shop that is actually making cabinets and has reasonable prices I would go with him....but in my area I couldn't find one. If you have time and can make the doors and use the IKEA boxes and hardware you could probably save the most money.

[cabinetman]

I'll first address what I think is your first choice. If the cabinets are intact and performing properly, refacing isn't that big of a deal. Since they are installed, the easiest method would be to use a paper backed veneer, and solvent based contact cement. Paper backed veneer once installed will hold up well. There's no expansion or contraction issues with it.

I wouldn't advise removing the face frames, because more than likely you will have damage to the cabinets. If you replace the doors and drawer fronts, very little face frame will show anyway.

First figure out the largest pieces of veneer you will need for finished ends, etc. You can buy many species of paper backed veneer in 4x8 sheets. It can be rolled up, and will fit in your car. To cover the face frames, just use a utility knife and cut strips to laminate like they will look like rails and stiles. Cutting the pieces to cover the old sections is best done with the remaining portions of the full sheets that won't be used. It takes just a little figuring. Allow a ¼" larger all around overhang to trim off after laminating. This trimming can be done with just a mill file...no need to rout in the house.

When complete, you can use a wipe on or brush on stain and or finish if you want.

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