"You do know that doesn't meet code?"

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  • Tom Slick
    Veteran Member
    • May 2005
    • 2913
    • Paso Robles, Calif, USA.
    • sears BT3 clone

    #16
    Did your 4 footers come with a pre-attached cord?
    Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work. - Thomas Edison

    Comment

    • woodturner
      Veteran Member
      • Jun 2008
      • 2049
      • Western Pennsylvania
      • General, Sears 21829, BT3100

      #17
      Originally posted by Mr__Bill
      I am sure that if you pursue the code you can find the section he was referring to.
      That's what prompted my question - I am very familiar with NEC and don't see any way to interpet it this way. In fact, NEC specifically states a plug qualifies:

      410.73(G) Disconnecting Means. In indoor locations, other than dwellings and associated accessory structures, fluorescent luminaires (fixtures) that utilize double-ended lamps and contain ballast(s) that can be serviced in place or ballasted luminaires that are supplied from multi-wire branch circuits and contain ballast(s) that can be serviced in place shall have a disconnecting means either internal or external to each luminaire (fixture), to disconnect
      simultaneously from the source of supply all conductors of the ballast, including the grounded conductor if any. The line side terminals of the disconnecting means shall be guarded. The disconnecting means shall be located so as to be accessible to qualified persons before servicing or maintaining the ballast. This requirement shall become effective
      January 1, 2008
      Exception No. 1: A disconnecting means shall not be required for luminaires (fixtures) installed in hazardous (classified) location(s).
      Exception No. 2: A disconnecting means shall not be required for emergency
      illumination required in 700.16.
      Exception No. 3: For cord-and-plug connected luminaires (fixtures), an accessible separable connector or an accessible plug and receptacle shall be permitted to serve as the disconnecting means.
      --------------------------------------------------
      Electrical Engineer by day, Woodworker by night

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      • dbhost
        Slow and steady
        • Apr 2008
        • 9560
        • League City, Texas
        • Ryobi BT3100

        #18
        Originally posted by Tom Slick
        Did your 4 footers come with a pre-attached cord?
        Yes. I believe they were the Lithonia $9.00 each models from Home Depot... If I recall the surface mount instructions call for replacing the cord with hard wire to a junction box. Which gets back to the original question. Why?

        FWIW, I have them surface mounted with the original cord / socket arrangement. An inspector might just throw a hissy fit...
        Please like and subscribe to my YouTube channel. Please check out and subscribe to my Workshop Blog.

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        • pelligrini
          Veteran Member
          • Apr 2007
          • 4217
          • Fort Worth, TX
          • Craftsman 21829

          #19
          Originally posted by woodturner
          That's what prompted my question - I am very familiar with NEC and don't see any way to interpet it this way. In fact, NEC specifically states a plug qualifies:
          OK, That's probably where some of this might be coming from. In order to use the plug and cord as the disconnecting means it has to be accessible. Here's the definitions of accessible from the 2005 NEC

          Accessible (as applied to equipment). Admitting close:
          approach; not guarded by locked doors, elevation, or other
          effective means.
          Accessible (as applied to wiring methods). Capable of
          being removed or exposed without damaging the building
          structure or finish or not permanently closed in by the structure
          or finish of the building.
          Accessible, Readily (Readily Accessible). Capable of being
          reached quickly for operation, renewal, or inspections
          without requiring those to whom ready access is requisite
          to climb over or remove obstacles or to resort to portable
          ladders, and so forth.
          Erik

          Comment

          • pelligrini
            Veteran Member
            • Apr 2007
            • 4217
            • Fort Worth, TX
            • Craftsman 21829

            #20
            If the ceiling outlet/s were switched. Would that constitute a Disconnecting Means?
            Erik

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            • docrowan
              Senior Member
              • Mar 2007
              • 893
              • New Albany, MS
              • BT3100

              #21
              I've run a series of outlets near the top of my shop walls that I plug my light fixtures into, both incandescent clamp lights and 4' fluorescents. These outlets are switched with one switch by the only door. I did this because I wanted maximum flexibility in being able to rearrange my lighting. Mine are currently hanging from very short chains, but I do plan to permanently mount them with screws at some point. Based on this discussion I will probably mount my fluorescents on 3/4" thick spacer blocks to ensure a bit of air flow.

              By the way, the plugs are readily accessible to anyone over about 5'. (I'm just shy of 6'0").
              - Chris.

              Comment

              • jdon
                Established Member
                • Feb 2010
                • 401
                • Snoqualmie, Wash.
                • BT3100

                #22
                This thread has created a lot of interesting discussion, but also a lot of speculation re: specific applicable code. Maybe the OP can ask the inspector who originally made the comment to cite the specific section of code, to help clear up the confusion!

                Comment

                • BigguyZ
                  Veteran Member
                  • Jul 2006
                  • 1818
                  • Minneapolis, MN
                  • Craftsman, older type w/ cast iron top

                  #23
                  Keep in mind that there's NEC, but there are also State, County, and even City codes that could overlap here.

                  Comment

                  • Tom Slick
                    Veteran Member
                    • May 2005
                    • 2913
                    • Paso Robles, Calif, USA.
                    • sears BT3 clone

                    #24
                    My guess is an interpretation of the code that makes a fixture attached to a chain temporary and allows a plug and a light screwed into the ceiling permanent* requiring permanent* wiring.
                    Something along the same lines as you can't use an extension cord as a permanent* power source, they are always interpreted as temporary.
                    The key words being temporary and permanent*, not necessarily light/fixture/equipment specific.

                    *"permanent" may be referred to as "fixed".
                    Last edited by Tom Slick; 06-23-2010, 11:27 AM.
                    Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work. - Thomas Edison

                    Comment

                    • woodturner
                      Veteran Member
                      • Jun 2008
                      • 2049
                      • Western Pennsylvania
                      • General, Sears 21829, BT3100

                      #25
                      Originally posted by BigguyZ
                      Keep in mind that there's NEC, but there are also State, County, and even City codes that could overlap here.
                      In theory, everywhere in the US has adopted NEC. They can adopt stricter but not less strict local requirements. (in theory).

                      I am aware that some municipalities are not in compliance with this national edict, however.
                      --------------------------------------------------
                      Electrical Engineer by day, Woodworker by night

                      Comment

                      • Mr__Bill
                        Veteran Member
                        • May 2007
                        • 2096
                        • Tacoma, WA
                        • BT3000

                        #26
                        Originally posted by Tom Slick
                        My guess is an interpretation of the code that makes a fixture attached to a chain temporary and allows a plug and a light screwed into the ceiling permanent* requiring permanent* wiring.
                        Something along the same lines as you can't use an extension cord as a permanent* power source, they are always interpreted as temporary.
                        The key words being temporary and permanent*, not necessarily light/fixture/equipment specific.

                        *"permanent" may be referred to as "fixed".
                        Tom, I do believe you are correct.

                        If one wanted to get some wiggle room with the code and inspector, you could cut key hole slots in the fixture so it could be removed by sliding it one way and unplugging it.

                        I really think the idea that the cheap lights need the airflow to keep from self destructing the more important part of the message.

                        Bill
                        on the Sunny Oregon Coast, at least above the fog it's sunny....

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                        • cabinetman
                          Gone but not Forgotten RIP
                          • Jun 2006
                          • 15216
                          • So. Florida
                          • Delta

                          #27
                          Originally posted by Mr__Bill

                          I really think the idea that the cheap lights need the airflow to keep from self destructing the more important part of the message.

                          Bill
                          on the Sunny Oregon Coast, at least above the fog it's sunny....

                          That's the truth. They need all the help they can get.
                          .

                          Comment

                          • ironhat
                            Veteran Member
                            • Aug 2004
                            • 2553
                            • Chambersburg, PA (South-central).
                            • Ridgid 3650 (can I still play here?)

                            #28
                            While we're speculating on cheap fluorescent lighting does anyone have any idea why the really inexpensive lights have such a short cord and the more expensive ones have a longer cord?
                            Blessings,
                            Chiz

                            Comment

                            • dbhost
                              Slow and steady
                              • Apr 2008
                              • 9560
                              • League City, Texas
                              • Ryobi BT3100

                              #29
                              Originally posted by ironhat
                              While we're speculating on cheap fluorescent lighting does anyone have any idea why the really inexpensive lights have such a short cord and the more expensive ones have a longer cord?
                              Less money for the cord maybe?
                              Please like and subscribe to my YouTube channel. Please check out and subscribe to my Workshop Blog.

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                              • Mr__Bill
                                Veteran Member
                                • May 2007
                                • 2096
                                • Tacoma, WA
                                • BT3000

                                #30
                                Originally posted by ironhat
                                While we're speculating on cheap fluorescent lighting does anyone have any idea why the really inexpensive lights have such a short cord and the more expensive ones have a longer cord?
                                All the cheap lights that I have really have a long cord but most of it is looped up inside the fixture. I just opened them up and fed the cord out the length I wanted it. If yours don't have a long cord inside it's a good place for one of those computer power cords you have hanging around and don't know what to do with.

                                Remember if you add a cord to the light the fixture needs to be grounded, if not the tubes burn out quicker and perhaps the ballast goes bad sooner too but I can't speak from experience with confidence on that. Perhaps one of the EE can enlighten us on that.


                                Bill
                                fog is really rain that can't make up it's mind on what it wants to do....

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