Bad battery or bad starter?

[jking]

Over the weekend, I started having problems getting my Ford Explorer to start. Normal symptoms, turn the key & the engine turns over a little slow & then the click, click, click. I get out the jumper cables & jump it. The alternator gauge shows charge when it's running (if you trust the gauges). If you let it run or drive it for a while, it will start right away. If you let it sit for an hour or two, get out the cables.

I had the same problem last year. I had to put in a new battery a little less than two years ago. Last year about this time, I was having similar problems so I had the mechanic look at it when they were replacing a bad door latch. They told me it was a bad battery, so, I took the battery back to Sears. They tested it (it took over half an hour and three people to figure out how to run their tester), & told me the battery was fine. Of course the mechanic charged the battery when they were done & I put the battery back in & had no problems until now.

Usually, when I've had starters go bad, they just quit & jumping the car doesn't work. So, it doesn't seem like what I'm used to seeing with a bad starter. But, the odd thing is after I've tried to start it & battery seems like it's run down there's plenty of juice to run the radio. When I've had batteries go bad I've never been able to power auxilliary stuff like radios & lights.

What am I likely chasing here? Side not: I haven't gotten out my amp meter & checked current draw when trying to start, because I don't have a battery charger to charge the battery first.

[LCHIEN]

1. your ammeter will probably blow, car motors may take 100+A to start, and its DC anyway (so a clamp on meter won't register).
2. the click-click-clcik noise is your starter relay engaging then dropping out as the voltagedrops when connected to the load, then reconnecting when the load is dropped (because the Relay opens). This means that yoius battery has a high internal impedance and cannot provide enough current to the motor so the voltage drops. Bad Battery or depleted battery.

To tell the difference, the battery should be fully charged using an external charger.

A. If it works OK then the battery is at least partly OK
A1 if it dies again soon then the battery is not holding a charge (bad batt) or there is a load on your battery when the car is off (failed electronic module or relay). You can check the "off" draw using a DC ammeter, the draw should be under 50 milliamps (.050 amps if its OK.)
A2. if it is fine but after several days of starts (how many depends if you use the lights and electrical accessories) it dies then your alternator is not charging the battery and its a bad alternator.
A3 or if you're like my mom and drive 3 miles every week and the problems happens every two months then you're not replacing the starting charge by driving so short and infrequently and the battery gets depleted from self-discharge/keeping the security system and clock running.

B If it still doesn't work (won't take a charge) then the batt is bad.

[crokett]

Sounds like the battery to me, or there is a parasitic drain on the battery. If it were the starter it shouldn't make a difference if the car has been run for an hour or not. It's possible the alternator is iffy but unlikely. My truck had a bad alternator and its symptom was it wouldn't start, so I'd jump it and it would run for as long as the battery had juice for and then it would die.

[pelligrini]

If it will crank fine when jumping, you probably have a bad battery. It sounds like one or more cells are dead. If it is a serviceable battery you can test the cells with a battery hydrometer.

It could also be just the connections too. Check your battery terminals. Remove them and clean them with a wire brush, both the battery and cable end. Check the negative cable to chassis connection and your other grounds too.

The starter might be going bad, pulling too much of a load. Couple the load with poor connections and you will get symptoms similar to what you have.

[dbhost]

No way to test for certain without a load tester. Autozone will hook you up and test your battery for free... Unfortunately they have to have the starter out of the car to test it. (Their equipment is funny that way...).

It does NOT sound like a starter to me, but either a bad battery, or a parasitic drain on the battery. (Something drawing power when it shouldn't like a radio, a light, the ECM, whatever...).

Seeing as you are in a northern climate, and the weather just recently went cold on you, I'd STRONGLY suggest a battery. Batteries tend to give up the ghost right after strong temperature changes from hot to cold, or cold to hot. For example, here in Texas, we will see a rash of battery failures in May / June. Northern folks should be seeing them now and in December...

By the way, the guys that work in Sears Auto Center are there for a reason... I did a very short stint there before I got out of that looney bin... If yours is as badly managed as the one I worked at, you wouldn't want your car there...

[Uncle Cracker]

I agree with others who think it's not the starter. Your battery is not holding a charge, either because it can't, or because it's not getting one. You could believe your ammeter, or you could just hook up a voltmeter across the battery while your engine is running (after cleaning and reinstalling the terminals). It should read more with the engine running than it does with the engine off (like about 13V running, and 11.5V off). If this is so, then you've probably got a bad battery. If the reading is not higher with the engine running, you've probably got a bad alternator. Either way, your parts store can confirm this without you having to take anything out (you only need to do that to test the starter).

If you do have a parasitic drain on the battery which kills it while the car is off, first clean the battery with baking soda and a bristle brush, and rinse off with water. Sometimes a battery will leak to ground if there is a buildup of conductive material on the case. If the problem persists after cleaning, try leaving the positive battery terminal disconnected after you have run the car. If you hook it up later and the battery starts the car OK, then you have some kind of voltage leak somewhere in the car wiring that will probably require a trip to the shop. If, however, you have run the car and then left the positive terminal disconnected, and the car still won't start after reconnecting, you can forget about a short or power drain, and go back to blaming the battery or alternator.

[jking]

By the way, the guys that work in Sears Auto Center are there for a reason... I did a very short stint there before I got out of that looney bin... If yours is as badly managed as the one I worked at, you wouldn't want your car there...

That's the reason when I had this issue last year & pulled the battery out & took it in. I didn't really want them monkeying around with anything else. That I was convinced it would be as simple as them testing the battery & seeing that it was bad & replacing it. I never expected them to not be sure of how to run the testing equipment.

Everyone is pretty much confirming what I suspected. The only reason I started wondering about the starter was because I've never been able to run radio & such when the battery runs down.

The only reason I bought a Diehard was it was supposed to be one of the best batteries on the market. After this, I think I might go back to buying them at Walmart.

[Black wallnut]

All of the major battery brands at one time or another have had a streak of bad batteries. I'm not saying that you have one of those now. I'm making the point that there are many different "good" brands of auto batteries. Including but not limeted to Interstate, Exide, Napa, Sears.

My guess is you need a battery!

[docrowan]

I was thinking parasitic drain when I was reading your first post. Uncle Cracker's suggestion makes sense to me as well and would be something pretty easy to do yourself before having to get professional help.

Also, plus one on the problems with a Sears service center. I'll never park my car within 50 feet of one of their shops. When we moved it took me a year and numerous trips to different repair shops to find a couple that I trust.

[vanguard]

I'd agree with the battery diagnosis, but make sure your terminals are clean and not corroded. Corroded terminals can interfere with the charging. I like to clean them using a cheap battery brush and then cover them with terminal grease.

[jking]

The only reason I'm attempting to deal with the Sears auto center is because if it is a bad battery they should replace it. I have no intention of having them complete any repairs beyond that.

[smorris]

Check all the connectors to make sure they are clean and tight. That will both cause the starter problems and prevent full charging.

[chopnhack]

I'd have to agree with OP on Sears batteries. I used to swear by them and go out of my way to find them for all my vehicles, but lately I have noticed that you really dont get as many years out of them. I recall getting a minimum of 7-8 years before having to replace them. Progress..I guess.