Broken Garage Door Spring - Should I replace?

[gjat]

Get a professional to come in. I'm an extreme do-it-yourself handyman at my house and have always been in construction. I've fixed a number of roll-up doors, re-tensioned them, etc. without incident. A couple of years ago, a foreman and I were repairing a small roll-up door when the spring broke loose. Neither of us got hurt but we were both so stunned by the energy realeased we looked at each other for 5 seconds totally speechless and both agreed neither of us would EVER attempt that again.

It's one thing to common sense a way to get things done that works, it's another to know how to do something in a certain way so that if something goes wrong, a tool slips or a part gives way, nobody gets hurt. It's just like ripping wood without an anti-kickback device. You could do it for years and never have a problem and then one day you're cutting a piece that has a knot or buried nail, the fence fails to lock, or you release internal tension in the board. Then you are standing dead in front of the board, no featherboards, no hold downs, no riving knife, no pawls or SharkGuard...

[cabinetman]

I've had to fix several springs, and re-tension loose ones. Mine were wood doors 10' and 12' wide. So heavy, two people can't lift them. The first time I called a garage door guy, and helped him out (so I could learn ). I can say it wasn't the spring that had me worried it was the bar used to turn the collar. If that thing left your hand, it could take your face off.
.

[JimD]

I've done some research since posting and appreciate all the comments. I learned that my springs are 20 inches long, 2 inches inside diameter and have wire that is .207 inches in diameter (by measuring the broken one (has to be untensioned)). I can buy a spring like I probably started with for $11.25 each on-line but I will definetely not do that. It would require me to move the ends off the old springs to the new and that requires a special tool that costs about $50. For $19.95 I can get a spring with ends attached. I will not replace just one, however, since the other one is just as old. For $9.95 a spring more, I can get a spring that is supposed to last twice as many cycles. That seems worthwhile so my do-it-yourself cost is up to $59.80 plus shipping plus some 1/2 rod for turning bars. It seems my previous "raise it by hand to tension it" is incorrect and you need to use winding bars which is the step you guys are cautioning me against. It will have to be tensioned 7-7 1/2 turns (I can unwind the good spring and count to figure out how much). The tensioning has to be consistent with the size of the winding drum and height of the door. My drums are the typical 4 inch so about a foot in diameter and the door is 7 feet tall so it has to be tensioned a little more than 7 turns (has to be a little more to keep the cable tensioned when the door is raised).

While I respect your advice I am confident I can do this, I am still unsure I want to. I've done many things that were dangerous and survived but I still do not go out of my way to do them, each one is a separate cost/benefit decision. There is a website for a guy who did it in 2002 and he calculates the pressure on the bars at around 20lbs. This seems right because my door has to weigh a little under $200 lbs based upon its springs and the winding bars are 18 inches long so they should provide 360 lbs force with 20 lbs on the ends. I wouldn't really be pushing on the extreme end but with at least a foot of leverage (effectively), 10-20 lbs will result in 100 lbs or more of force on the spring. While I will need to concentrate and be careful to not all the bars to slip out of the winder end until the set screws are tightened, the force required is really pretty modest. I unintentionally untensioned a spring once and I know there is some force there (around 100 lbs in my case), the spring is very unlikely to break due to untensioning - they break due to high cycle fatigue and stress. Untensioning the intact spring will be the riskiest step in my case. One good thing about a tension spring is it is on a pipe so the fragments typically stay in place. I will have eye protection against small fragments. I haven't gotten a quote yet but I am probably looking at about $100 over the material cost to have somebody do it and that is not too bad. They will use the cheaper plain spring replacement and it should take ~2 hours so they are making a decent but not huge rate. Maybe I could still get a better spring.

The other option I need to talk to LOML about is just replaceing the door. Torsion springs have to be sized for the weight of the door. Our door was dented by a friend of our son years ago. While we made it functional, we were considering replacing it. If we do, it needs new springs anyway. Maybe it is time to just spend ~$1000 instead of ~150 and get the new door we want.

I am still open to your suggestions, just updating you on where I am at.

Jim

[pelligrini]

Looks like you have a handle on the job of replacing the springs.

One thing to consider in getting a new door is going with one of the insulated ones. I don't know what your climate is like, or what other uses your garage does, but an insulated door can make a big difference. If it is an attached garage the benefits are even greater.

[Ed62]

If you do the job yourself (still not recommended) I think it's a good idea to replace both springs, as you were planning.

The spring itself is not likely to hurt you, it's the bar that goes flying if something slips. Then you have a problem.

Seven turns sounds about right because you will only tighten it 1/4 turn when you move the bars for the next 1/4 turn. You might have to give it a little more or less to tweak it at the end if the door does not raise the same on both sides. Not sure if you noticed, but the springs have a line painted on them, which runs the length of the spring. As you tighten the spring, the line will appear to be several diagonal lines, due to the tightening. Take a look at the good spring, and you'll see what I'm talking about.

I still say pay a pro. The $100.00 or so will be worth the labor involved. Don't forget that he does it regularly, and he'll do it a lot faster/safer than you will.

BTW, the last spring I replaced cost me about $43.00. Are you sure you're getting a good quality spring for the price you quote?

Ed

[JimD]

I found a wide range of pricing for springs on-line but there was no indication that the more expensive springs were better quality - at least that was my judgement.

The $59.80 for high cycle springs was from diygaragerepair.com. They have a well designed website, send you a DVD of instructions with the parts, and their explanations of the parts and process makes me believe they know what they are doing. I did not check on their ratings (if any) at "resellerratings.com". I would do so before ordering from them.

I am close to just buying an installed door. I wanted to just get the door with the install parts and save nearly $400 installing the whole thing but LOML does not like the idea. I would need another set of hands to do this easily and she is not a very good helper (far too many explanations required and if they are not said just right, there are problems). My son or neighbors would help but it is probably wisest just to do what you guys suggest, and LOML wants, and pay a "pro". I put the pro in quotes because for some things I think I can do better. I really hate paying and then having to fix what is not done very well. I don't think the garage door is one of these, however, I suspect they would install it just fine.

The new door I am close to purchasing is the "one level up" model with vinyl backed insulation. The garage is attached but the walls are not insulated all the way to the foundation. The foundation comes a foot or more up the walls and it is brick. The window is also only single pane glass. I cannot see going up to the R-9 or even R-6.5 models with uninsulated walls and window but the R-4 model seems worthwhile. It will not be much heavier than a plain steel one (for the next time a spring breaks) like we have now but will be a little stiffer and the insulation will help a little.

Thanks for your thoughts.

Jim

[LCHIEN]

one approach, buy the hardware you need and have some guy just do the labor, you'll save the markups at retail that he will put on run of the mill hardware but get him to do the tricky part. Just call them up and say you bought springs already but are having second thoughts about doing the installation.
There's always something that can go wrong when you install one vs. a guy who has installed 100's. Maybe you can watch and see if you want to tackle it next time.
Finally, the risk of breaking is small. The real risk as you noted is winding the springs, you have to use a bar to get leverage for 20-100 lbs as you note, because of the space you can't rotate all the way around so then shift hands and tools to do the next part. If you let go inadvertantly ordon't have a good grip the levers will fly off or hit you with 100 ft-lbs and this could knock you off the ladder, cause broken bones or serious face and or arm injuries.

[jonmulzer]

A few years ago I helped a friend install a garage door and opener on his home. I am unsure of the brand but it was designed so that you install it with no tension and then there is a drive system that accepts a 3/8" ratchet (IIRC) to tension the spring through what I assume was a ring and pinion mechanism. You may want to see if this is something you can get for not much more. It was very safe to install and very easy to tension with a drill and a 3/8" drive adapter.

I have done one where I had to wind it the full 7 1/4 turns by hand with two bars and about 5 turns into it I was scared of something going wrong and it was getting difficult to keep everything going correctly and safely. Not hard to turn the bar, just hard to position the second bar and get the second one loose, etc. As others say, I will never do that again. I will get the type I mentioned above, or hire someone else to do it.

[thiggy]

rnelsonO, I believe that you are thinking of extension springs which are mounted overhead on both sides of the door rails. These should have a safety cable through the middle to catch them in the event of breakage. This thread concerns torsion springs which are mounted above the door opening on a shaft. A safety cable is not used on this type of installation.

[greencat]

A few years ago I helped a friend install a garage door and opener on his home. I am unsure of the brand but it was designed so that you install it with no tension and then there is a drive system that accepts a 3/8" ratchet (IIRC) to tension the spring through what I assume was a ring and pinion mechanism. You may want to see if this is something you can get for not much more. It was very safe to install and very easy to tension with a drill and a 3/8" drive adapter.

I have done one where I had to wind it the full 7 1/4 turns by hand with two bars and about 5 turns into it I was scared of something going wrong and it was getting difficult to keep everything going correctly and safely. Not hard to turn the bar, just hard to position the second bar and get the second one loose, etc. As others say, I will never do that again. I will get the type I mentioned above, or hire someone else to do it.

My son called last summer and asked if I would help him install a garage door since his door was old and the opener had just broke. I was ready to tell him to hire it done for all of the reasons said earlier but I also wanted to show him how much fun DIY is. His wife is reluctant for him to do things especially since he had just busted a water line that flooded the basement. I told him every DIY person makes mistakes and that’s how you learn. When old galvanized pipe is tough to turn you just don't get a bigger pipe wrench without turning off the water. So my son got a garage door from Borg. It looked like a jig saw puzzle but it went together easily. It was me and the father in law doing 90% of the work and the 4 grown sons were watching. But the spring had a windup ratchet that made it safe to wind.

Things I learned – use c-clamps to lock the old door in place as you remove it. Its heaver then it looks. With the door up most of the tension is gone then we cut the wires. Don’t reuse the old track – the new door comes with a track and it may look the same but its not. I would do the project again.

[rnelson0]

This thread concerns torsion springs which are mounted above the door opening on a shaft. A safety cable is not used on this type of installation.

Pairs of springs were mentioned and I've only seen a single torsion spring in use. I guess pictures would help.

[LCHIEN]

Here's a mechanical Engineer who tells you how to do it and has a number of pictures
of both the broken spring and pictures of how he repaired it. Lots of text with explanations of why and why alternatives won't work. The kind of stuff i might write.

http://www.truetex.com/garage.htm

[Anna]

...His wife is reluctant for him to do things especially since he had just busted a water line that flooded the basement....

I remember reading about a sign on a plumber's truck that read: "We repair what your husband fixed."

[JimD]

I went the most expensive route. We are waiting on a phone call from the installation contractor so he can inspect the installation to make sure what I told them is true so that they will actually order the door. If I can endure the wait, this will be a good route, expect for cost.

I wanted to just buy the door and save $300-400. I would get all the installation hardware with the door regardless (I asked). LOML did not want me to put it in myself. Her logic is that if anything went wrong, the money would be well spent. I reminded her I had done more challenging things. If she would be out of town or something, I could have done this. (not at all related but I took a 2x4 out of the wall behind the refrigerator when she went to France so I could move the frig 2 1/2 inches deeper into the cabinet and further out of a doorway.) With her around for the forseeable future, I think I did the right thing. Not worth a fight with her about it.

I will only regret this if the contractor does such a lousy job I have to redo it or if this takes longer than the 30 days they quoted. Neither seems likely.

Jim

[topak]

garage door spring install

anyone who tried a garage door spring install...? how was it...?


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