BT3 Clone Craftman 21829; good, bad, ???

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  • oddbody

    BT3 Clone Craftman 21829; good, bad, ???

    Greetings,

    I'm brand new to posting on the forum but have been reading it for a while; good stuff.

    I'm looking to purchase my first table saw and would like your opinion on the Craftsman 21829. As I've read here and a number of other places it seems to be a Ryobi BT3XXX... or the latest version.

    From what I've read about the BT3XXX, seems you either love 'em or hate 'em. I'd like to find out myself. I've got an opportunity to buy one used that's in excellent shape. I've missed out on a couple of BT3000's in the $200 range; they get scooped fast!

    I looking to due some basic cabinet/entertainment center/bookcase type construction in my garage. I've been taking a few basic classes and don't know a whole heck of a lot but, I'm learning.

    My first take on any drawbacks on this saw is:
    1) Non-standard miter grooves on the table top
    2) Lack of dado accessories
    3) Fence and miter need continuous adjustment

    Now, I'm not looking build anything within "NASA" type tolerances but, would like some decent cuts with consistency. Since I will be joining, what's the concern with Dado capability?

    Your opinions mean a lot and I appreciate any response and advice/experience you can provide.
    Thanks
  • LCHIEN
    Internet Fact Checker
    • Dec 2002
    • 20920
    • Katy, TX, USA.
    • BT3000 vintage 1999

    #2
    1. there are no miter grooves on top Except for the ones on the auxiliary table and those aren't for sawing, only router use.
    2. Stacked dadoes of common 6" size work great; they are easy to get. The 8" and the wobble types will cause some problems.
    3. I never have to adjust my miter fence and rip fence except for the normal use adjustments, no recalibrations.

    You should probably get my FAQ (see sig line below). I check here multiple times a day so you'll get it quick.
    among other things, it goes into detail the difference between saw versions BT3000 vs BT3100 vs 21829 and others, the whole dado thing, the 21829 slots issues, etc.
    Last edited by LCHIEN; 03-16-2010, 02:47 PM.
    Loring in Katy, TX USA
    If your only tool is a hammer, you tend to treat all problems as if they were nails.
    BT3 FAQ - https://www.sawdustzone.org/forum/di...sked-questions

    Comment

    • dbhost
      Slow and steady
      • Apr 2008
      • 9209
      • League City, Texas
      • Ryobi BT3100

      #3
      Originally posted by oddbody
      I'm looking to purchase my first table saw and would like your opinion on the Craftsman 21829. As I've read here and a number of other places it seems to be a Ryobi BT3XXX... or the latest version.
      Exactly. The 21829 is the updated version of the BT3x00, with some nice refinements. My favorites are the...

      #1. Folding stand.
      #2. Miter slot in the accessory / router table.

      From what I've read about the BT3XXX, seems you either love 'em or hate 'em. I'd like to find out myself. I've got an opportunity to buy one used that's in excellent shape. I've missed out on a couple of BT3000's in the $200 range; they get scooped fast!
      Exactly. Not too many folks out there lukewarm about the saws. Even a lot of prior owners that have moved on to cabinet saws and the like have fond memories of the BT3x00 saws...

      My first take on any drawbacks on this saw is:
      1) Non-standard miter grooves on the table top
      2) Lack of dado accessories
      3) Fence and miter need continuous adjustment
      You must mean no miter slots. Instead a sliding miter table. Mind you, many high end table saws use a sliding table as well. Sort of a built in cross cut sled... VERY useful. And with the accessory dual slot miter tables available this becomes a non issue. Initially adjusting the miter tables is a little challenging, but not impossible...

      Now, I'm not looking build anything within "NASA" type tolerances but, would like some decent cuts with consistency. Since I will be joining, what's the concern with Dado capability?
      The BT3x00 saws excel at consistent, accurate cuts.
      I am not sure what the issue with Dado capacity is. Sure it requires a 6" stack instead of 8", but that is common with 1.5HP saws. And not being able to run a Wobble dado is a HUGE plus in my book... Wobblers leave very rough dadoes from what I have seen...

      A couple of excellent Dado stacks to look at are the Oshlun SDS-0630 (Amazon and Rockler both sell them, I think Holbren also handles them...) and the Freud SD506.
      Please like and subscribe to my YouTube channel. Please check out and subscribe to my Workshop Blog.

      Comment

      • pelligrini
        Veteran Member
        • Apr 2007
        • 4217
        • Fort Worth, TX
        • Craftsman 21829

        #4
        I've been using a 21829 for the last 3 1/2 years, it was an upgrade to a 10" POS benchtop Skillsaw. I've used a nice cabinet saw on a few occasions that was in the shop in the architecture building several years ago. I don't have a lot of experience with bigger iron.

        I think it is a fantastic saw though. With my little shop I'd be lost without it. There's not too many saws out there that will let one have a very portable setup with a 5 1/2 foot long table and a SMT. I added a set of half rails to the OEM 48" long rails. My saw get’s moved in and out of my 10x12 shed every session.

        The lack of the miter slots is a drawback, but there are solutions for that too. I added some miter slots and T-track slots on either side of the table. The auxiliary table that comes with the saw has T-slots but they are about useless to use with the saw. I thought about some sort of alignment apparatus to align the aux table to the blade, but I opted for slots and t-track.

        I have used my old craftsman 8” dado stack without issues. I have to use a thinner 5/8” washer on the inside of the arbor instead of the smaller spacer so I can fit a full 3/4” stack. When I get around to getting a quality stack I’ll probably opt for a 6” though. There aren’t very many times when I would need the height of an 8” stack.

        I don’t know about the continuous adjustment of the fence and SMT. I had to do a little bit of aligning to my SMT this last Saturday, the last time I adjusted it was 2 Summers ago. My rip fence was still dead on.

        If you end up getting a 21829 or find a BT do yourself a favor and get a Shark Guard. It’s one of the best things I have purchased & used.
        Erik

        Comment

        • mpc
          Senior Member
          • Feb 2005
          • 979
          • Cypress, CA, USA.
          • BT3000 orig 13amp model

          #5
          No miter slots in the stock/factory configuration: yup, true. If you need/want the typical miter slot accessories, you'll have to buy a miter slot channel, attach it to a bit of hardwood, and fasten that to the saw casing. Not a big deal - many folks have done it. Or get the dual slot miter channel that Ryobi offered as an accessory; the BT3x saws are pre-drilled for this on the left side of the blade; I don't know if the current Craftsman variant is pre-drilled or not. Think about just about any table saw out there: you still have to build your own gizmos for so many tasks: tall fences, zero clearance throat plates, sacrificial fences for dado blades, buy/build a tenoning jig, etc. With the BT3 family, the miter slots just become one more task you do yourself as part of really making the saw do what you need it to do. Other saws you'll probably make a crosscut sled; that's effectively part of the BT3x thanks to the sliding miter table. No saw out there is 100% ready for every possible cut straight from the manufacturer.

          I check the fence and sliding miter table (SMT) adjustment regularly and very rarely do they need attention. And my BT3000 (first generation 13amp model no less) moves around a lot because I have a rule that 2 cars WILL be in the garage each night - it's how I keep the garage/shop organized. So the SMT is uninstalled every time I store the saw. Folks that have to continually adjust typically fall into 1 of 2 camps:

          1: the floor of their work area is uneven. The non-cast-iron stand & saw body that makes the BT3 family portable also means they can flex more easily if the floor is uneven. Not having the stand assembled properly (securely) and/or not having the saw body firmly attached to the stand just magnifies the problem. One work-around: once you get your saw aligned, mark where the stand sits on the floor so you can always set it up in the same spot - then the alignment will hold better. Many folks on this site have built roll-around stands of their own - offering storage space, very stiff construction, etc. With a small-bodied saw you have lots of opportunities to make efficient use of the space; not as easy with a traditional cabinet saw or contractors saw. Those pretty much eat up floor space and offer no extra storage or extra utility.

          2: they got a badly abused saw or something is flat-out wrong with it, not set up correctly, etc. Or they just don't know how to set it up properly the first time (didn't read the manuals). The BT3 saws "align" differently than traditional table saws so folks that try the "typical" alignment methods just dig big holes.

          Dado blades: the other folks covered that. The 6 inch stacks work fine and will cut completely through most sheet panels - deeper than is necessary for most tasks. For what you said your jobs/projects are, I think a 6 inch stack will do everything.

          To me, the biggest "limitation" of the saw is the physical size of the work surface. The BT3s have a generous area ahead of the blade - especially compared to other portable or jobsite saws. But when it comes to handling full sheets even more work surface is desirable. You won't get significantly bigger without going to the big-iron professional saws. Infeed/outfeed support stands, tables, etc. are your friends here. They'd be necessary for just about any saw to handle full sheet goods. Or, the better/safer option, for full sheet goods: trim them roughly to size with a circular saw and a straightedge or sawboard. Do the final dimensioning cut on the table saw. Other than multi-thousand dollar table saws you won't find any that significantly better the BT3 work surface. The BT3s fence plus rail system is easily expandable - much less expensive than other saws too.

          The other limitation is simply the horsepower of the motor. The BT3 saws just don't have the horsepower of the "big" 220 volt saws. When hogging through thick or really dense material you'll have to use a lower feed rate. I'm not a production cabinet shop so taking twice as long to make a cut doesn't concern me. Folks that have upgraded to the big saws typically find this is the biggest thing they notice: big HP motors do make a difference - and they like not having to worry about overloading the motor or stalling the saw blade. My garage wiring wouldn't support one of those saws...

          mpc

          edit: yes, a real BT3000 13 amp saw... one of the first generation. And I bought mine new - not used - I've had it for many years now. I guess that puts me in the "love 'em" category.
          Last edited by mpc; 03-17-2010, 02:48 AM.

          Comment

          • jeepman71
            Established Member
            • Nov 2008
            • 138

            #6
            I have been happy with mine. It is no cabinet saw but then I have no space for such a saw. I do use my aux table with the miter track for sawing as often as I use the SMT. I have a little trouble cutting full sheets of plywood on it so I just don't. I built a nice little router table where the aux table goes. I use a six inch dado with good success. I purchased blanks for the BT3*** on e-bay a couple years ago and they have worked just fine.

            I think you would be very happy with this saw but I would never pay the retail on this saw.

            Good luck.

            Comment

            • LCHIEN
              Internet Fact Checker
              • Dec 2002
              • 20920
              • Katy, TX, USA.
              • BT3000 vintage 1999

              #7
              i would add what i've said in the past - that the BT3 saws are hobbiest saws. They are not heavy duty saws.
              When used with reasonable care, they will last a long time and cut accurately and repeatably.
              They will not withstand a lot of abuse. The motor is a universal motor, not an induction motor and is not meant for anything near continuous use. It will cut an ocassional heavy piece of timber and a 3" deep rip slowly is just about at its limit...
              You cannot cut repeated deep rips in one session. Its suited more for modest cuts and rips where you cut and assemble, then cut again where you might be running the saw intermittently. It does have some plastic and aluminum parts that will break and even wear if treated harshly, but they will last a long time if treated carefully.

              The BT saws have a lot of modularity - fences and rails with slots, removable/repositional tables. It can be a tinkerers delight if you like to customize it and play with tools and accessories. I have seen it become some peoples' nightmare if they are not particularly handy or overly obsessive. Some people just don't get the hang of it.

              You will have to think about your personality and about how you plan to use a saw if you are considering this one.
              Last edited by LCHIEN; 03-17-2010, 09:25 AM.
              Loring in Katy, TX USA
              If your only tool is a hammer, you tend to treat all problems as if they were nails.
              BT3 FAQ - https://www.sawdustzone.org/forum/di...sked-questions

              Comment

              • JR
                The Full Monte
                • Feb 2004
                • 5633
                • Eugene, OR
                • BT3000

                #8
                Originally posted by oddbody
                3) Fence and miter need continuous adjustment
                If you leave the sliding miter table in place it will maintain its adjustments. The configuration of my shop necessitates removing it for everyday use, so I have to check it for square every time I install it.

                JR
                JR

                Comment

                • pelligrini
                  Veteran Member
                  • Apr 2007
                  • 4217
                  • Fort Worth, TX
                  • Craftsman 21829

                  #9
                  How often do you have to align it JR?

                  I remove mine a lot. I'll check it for square often, but I hardly ever have to mess with the base & sliding table. The miter fence is another thing though.
                  Erik

                  Comment

                  • JR
                    The Full Monte
                    • Feb 2004
                    • 5633
                    • Eugene, OR
                    • BT3000

                    #10
                    Originally posted by pelligrini
                    The miter fence is another thing though.
                    Yeah, that's what I would check every time.

                    Full disclosure: I no longer use the SMT for very fine cuts. I have miter slots left and right of the blade and have built sleds for cross cuts and miter cuts. I just load 'em up and cut with excellent results.

                    I used the SMT for years, and when my shop configuration supported leaving it installed, it worked just fine.


                    JR
                    JR

                    Comment

                    • oddbody

                      #11
                      Excellent Advice; Thank You!

                      You know guys, I really appreciate the expert advice. I tend to believe mastering this tools requires a little right brain creativity. You guys have put to rest some concerns and I think this can be a fun and flexible saw.

                      Looked at a used one last night, Craftsman 21829. About two years old, hardly used. Comes with 3 new blades including a dado. Gonna pick it up this evening.

                      I did notice the router table was not flush with the saw table but, who ever put this saw together completely reversed the table install. I put a right angle to the blade and it was right at 90 degrees; the fence was a hair off. So I guess I'll need to spend some time adjusting; not a big deal, I can invest that with out a problem.

                      I'm curious thought, as I've read in a lot of discussions about this saw, many have problems with the accessory table not being completely level/flush with the saw table. I haven't looked closely at the construction yet but, can't that be remedied with a washer or something like that?

                      Comment

                      • LCHIEN
                        Internet Fact Checker
                        • Dec 2002
                        • 20920
                        • Katy, TX, USA.
                        • BT3000 vintage 1999

                        #12
                        you can raise the level of the auxilary table and SMT by putting/gluing thin plastic shims under the part that rides on top of the rail. Actually, first you should check the rails, by loosening the rail-holding levers and moving the rails slightly and then retightening the levers you might find enough slop to affect the height a little.
                        Loring in Katy, TX USA
                        If your only tool is a hammer, you tend to treat all problems as if they were nails.
                        BT3 FAQ - https://www.sawdustzone.org/forum/di...sked-questions

                        Comment

                        • mpc
                          Senior Member
                          • Feb 2005
                          • 979
                          • Cypress, CA, USA.
                          • BT3000 orig 13amp model

                          #13
                          Also, when looking at a used BT3 style saw, verify the rails are straight. A low accessory table might come from banana shaped rails. Not very common but I did find one with a bent front rail a few years ago. Using the rails as "wheelbarrow handles" doesn't do them, nor the mounting points on the saw body, any favors. Trying to use the accessory table as a workbench when pounding with a mallet or pushing downwards to hand-plane, squeeze too-tight woodworking joints together, etc. can tweak the rails. They're fairly strong, but not indestructible.

                          mpc

                          Comment

                          • oddbody

                            #14
                            Well, finally got it put together, correctly. Everything matches up nicely once in place. Now I've got to wait on Sears. Was missing a few things and have ordered them; nothing in store at the local repair/parts store..go figure!

                            All in all, I'm quite impressed the more I understand how it all works and plays together.

                            Thanks for the help and support!

                            Comment

                            • Kavoom
                              Forum Newbie
                              • Mar 2010
                              • 43
                              • Sears 21289

                              #15
                              Me 2

                              I just got my 21289 on Sunday. I have been lurking here and looking at one of these for over a year. I got a "new" one that came in with a broken stand and blade guard and they put it on clearance. It took em six weeks to get the parts and the computer kept lowering the price. After all was said and done and the Friends and Family discount, I got it for $285.

                              I have a couple of projects. This was a perfect thread and thank you for all the valuable information.
                              Kavoom
                              Upside Down and Backwards

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