Basic Lumber Question

[Jeffrey Schronce]

Because it is essentially long planks of separate pine fused together there is a lot of grain and movement which is pretty interesting looking in my opinion.

I am now about 90% sure I know what you are talking about. It's a sheet of solid pine wood approximately 1" wide with random lengths all glued up to create 1 2' x 6' sheet.
I don't see how there is anyway you could reasonably stain that. Dealing with a solid piece of pine is difficult enough to stain. But one of you projects would have 10-15 different pieces of pine glued together, all varying in sap contents, color, etc. Sealing with a sanding sealer such as shellac is still going to result in widely varying colors due to the type of wood you have there. HOWEVER, given what you are working with, I think staining would be incredibly easy understanding that each individual piece of pine is going to be a different color than its neighbor. Or you could just give it a clear coat finish and be done with it.

[JR]

It's weird because I had a thread on here before about "edge glued" pine and nobody knew what I was talking about.

Ok, I finally know what you're talking about!

The confusion happens when you talk about "lamination". That stuff is technically a lamination, but most people automatically think of plywood when using that term.

Yeah, you're not going to find 1/2" thick material in "solid" wood. The kind of lamination you're looking at can be thought of as solid wood, because it is a collection of solid pieces glued together on edge, rather than sheets glued together on their faces as with plywood.

So you've got to either learn to like 3/4" material or find a way to get it milled to 1/2". A planer would make short work of planing 3/4" down to 1/2". Granted, it's an extra step in your process, but it would happen pretty quickly. Alternatively, a lumber yard would probably plane it down for a fee. Of course a lumber yard probably doesn't carry the stuff you're looking at from HD, so you'd be looking at whatever pine they carry.

JR

[mackmack]

I have stained probably 10 now with different colors to see which I like best. I have used Polyshades so far only. I sand it all down, use a pre-stain on it, then stain twice sanding with steel wool after each coat.

The good news is that the wood itself is not the showcase for the piece, but rather the fountain and bamboo. You guys would probably go nuts when you see that I haven't mitered the edges or anything. It is edge to edge glued to create a cube. I hope I can get away with it because it is suppose to be a more utilitarian/Japanese type of look. Like a rough square flower box. I do use a router on the top edge to create a soft lip and to help bring the separate pieces together.

I actually have one in front of me now. It's pretty uniform to be honest. The sheets that I buy are really smooth and it's hard to even tell it's edge glued. Hopefully I can get a picture up here for you guys to see though.

Jeff, does that sound about right that I won't be able to find anything in 1/2" unless I have it milled down?

[Jeffrey Schronce]

Jeff, does that sound about right that I won't be able to find anything in 1/2" unless I have it milled down?

Yes, unless you special order then it is probably going to drive the cost way up.

Two options for you :

1) Get a Ridgid planer at HD. Rip the 24" board down to 12" board and plane yourself.

or

2) Why not throw anothe option in here and I think this would work well with your design. Have you thought about bamboo flooring? It is 3/8" thick and you can find it for around $2 sq ft. You are paying $1.60 sq ft for the pine boards. Not only would that material fit your project very nicely, it is already professionally finished.

[LCHIEN]

There's an amount of confusion in this thread.

Mack talked about 4 x 8 sheets, and they're really 2' x 6'
Generally sheet goods inwoodworking refers to plywood, MDF, pressboad and the like sold in sheets of approx 4' x 8'.
Commonly plywood is thought to be the most common lamination, technically its a face lamination as are boards with melamine or formica faces.
The lamination Mack is buying is what I would call a edge lamination or edge glued boards. Technically, solid wood across its thickness I would call these a board, too.

Now, thinking outside the given box (ha, that's a pun), I'm having a little problem picturing the box that he is building. I gather so far that it has no top and surrounds a plastic box that actually holds water, and thickness of 1/2 5/8 or 3/4 will work.
Questions:
Is this a four sided box or a five sided box - eg. does it need a bottom?
How are the corners joined? miter, butt, rabbet, glue, pocket screws. etc and
Does it need to be real strong or is it as I am guessing, just decorative?

My thinking is, if this is just a decorative outside facade with no bottom or even a bottom, then you can get by with 3/8" or 1/4" material as well as thicker stuff.
You can plane stuff down but that's wasteful of wood and time
you can resaw 4/4 material and then plane it to 3/8" but that's still time consuming.

If you are building 250 per month, five-sided boxes 5 x 5 x 5 of material that's basically 1/2" unfinished (3/8" finished) then you are using by my calculation under 1/2 bd. ft per box or 125 bd feet per month
Over 6 months you'll be using 750 board feet.

At $2 per bd ft you'll be costing $1 per box.
Presently you get maybe 14 boxes per $19 board or $1.25 per box.

It would be worth your while at those production levels to contact a lumber mill to provide you with 750 board feet custom milled to 1/2" or 3/8" thick hardwood lumber S2S (planed 2 sides) in 5-6" widths. You could even offer to accept short lengths if they could do it cheaper (less waste for them).
and you should probably be able to get it for under $2 per bd ft which would reduce your box cost from what you pay now. and your boxes would probably look better.

[mackmack]

Yeah sorry about the confusion, I should have been more accurate in describing it initially. Probably shouldn't have used the word "sheet" as well.

Regarding the box, yes any size of wood would technically work as it is just surrounding the plastic box. It does use a bottom piece as well to hold the plastic basin. All the joints are butt joints. It doesn't need to be real strong and the titebond 2 I am using is more then enough, I can't pull it apart as hard as I try.

That is certainly something to consider, placing a large order with my lumber yard, unfortunately I don't have the capital at the moment and can only buy for a few weeks in advance as I start off. I have other costs, for example the pumps/lights are $9 a piece at wholesale. Then there is the bamboo from PA, and I also have custom stain glass "rocks" shipped in from Utah.

Hopefully at some point I will be able to invest into getting the wood custom as I want it though. Still have to see how viable the entire idea is, but I feel good about it and have gotten positive remarks thus far from friends and family(admittedly not the most objectionable people).

Jeff, the bamboo flooring is an interesting idea as well. I did a quick search on it, does it all come glossy like that? It's a little too nice and might overtake the fountain which is intended to be a very simple bamboo fluted pole and "faucet".

[bigfoot]

Contact some flooring manufacturers online, see if you can buy some bamboo flooring direct and unfinished. The company I work for does not make any bamboo flooring anymore, if we still did, I could have hooked ya up.

[Jeffrey Schronce]

Jeff, the bamboo flooring is an interesting idea as well. I did a quick search on it, does it all come glossy like that? It's a little too nice and might overtake the fountain which is intended to be a very simple bamboo fluted pole and "faucet".

The stuff I saw was not glossy, rather it was more of a matte finish. Definately not have high gloss like the standard prefinished red oak hardwood. Steel wool could further reduce any sheen.

[Ken Massingale]

mack,
Lowes and HD have what they call Craft boards in 1/4, 3/8" and 1/2 "thicknesses. Most have Poplar and Oak, one HD I know of also has Pine.

http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?actio...ds&N=0+5000164

http://homedepot.bighammersoftware.c...=801443&page=2

[mackmack]

Contact some flooring manufacturers online, see if you can buy some bamboo flooring direct and unfinished. The company I work for does not make any bamboo flooring anymore, if we still did, I could have hooked ya up.

Everywhere I looked online they sold the tongue and groove style of flooring. Is it something I need to ask them to do special for me or would I need to cut it off?

All sides edges of the wood, or bamboo in this case, are showing for me so I'm not really sure what to ask for.

[Jeffrey Schronce]

Everywhere I looked online they sold the tongue and groove style of flooring. Is it something I need to ask them to do special for me or would I need to cut it off?

All sides edges of the wood, or bamboo in this case, are showing for me so I'm not really sure what to ask for.

Rip the tongue off with BT3. Use ripped edge as the one facing up and then the grooved ecge will be facing down.

[TheRic]

Rip the tongue off with BT3. Use ripped edge as the one facing up and then the grooved ecge will be facing down.

Depending on how deep the groove is, you could Rip 1 side of the grooved edge off, giving you a rabbit joint. When you glue the bottom on it will have a little more area to hold, then a simple butt joint. With water in there a little extra strengh on the bottom wouldn't hurt things. You know people will pick it up on the sides when it is full. Hate for the whole thing to drop out.

Would like to see pictures of the final item. Sounds interesting.

[BrazosJake]

Sounds like you're talking about sheet goods.

Woods like poplar that don't take stain well can be dyed. A surprising lot of solid wood furniture is actually dyed poplar.

[Russianwolf]

Yes, unless you special order then it is probably going to drive the cost way up.

Two options for you :

1) Get a Ridgid planer at HD. Rip the 24" board down to 12" board and plane yourself.

or

2) Why not throw anothe option in here and I think this would work well with your design. Have you thought about bamboo flooring? It is 3/8" thick and you can find it for around $2 sq ft. You are paying $1.60 sq ft for the pine boards. Not only would that material fit your project very nicely, it is already professionally finished.

Bamboo flooring is uaually 5/8's. I'm in the process of reflooring my dining room with the stuff now.

[Jeffrey Schronce]

Bamboo flooring is uaually 5/8's. I'm in the process of reflooring my dining room with the stuff now.

You are correct.